Star Wars vs Star Trek

This likely will be my last post in this thread due to the language and animosity going around. I have looked at the films and episodes. I saw several occasions where a listed rating did more to one thing than to another or blew up a fighter and didn't scratch a tree with more than a shower of sparks. Considering this there are simply continuity flaws in what amount of energy does what damage to what materials. Thus this argument will never end. Personally since we are going with complete canon here my argument is this. Even with Q taken out since he's basically a god, transphasic torpedoes are canon, they were in the last episode of Voyager and thus usable. If any one technology could assure the Federation a win its that, end of story, no room for argument. By the way if you think about Federation policy they wouldn't have transphasic torpedoes on their ships normaly (hence no mention in Inssurection) but if war happened you can bet they would become available if the files were not already in the ships so the torps could be modified on the fly.

 

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Plenty of room for argument, Fox, the torpedoes in question penetrated Borg defenses, but we have no assurance they would penetrate any other defenses. In fact we seem the only used against the Borg vessels and normal cubes at that. Since First Contact proved that Borg ships do have weak points the weapon could just have hit one of those points.

Also you are assuming that more could be made so quickly. Janeway had to bring back the basic parts for every last transphasic torpedo she gave Voyager. The parts may not be replicatable, or the Federation might need thirty years of reasearch just to be able to produce the weapon. That is if they decide they can break the Temporal Prime Directive.

You also aren't understanding the strategy the Empire can use. Star Trek strategy depends on detecting the incoming enemy and sending out ships to intercept. In this case the enemy is not detectable untill he is in a high orbit and firing on your planet. Unless you plan on having a few ships permanently orbiting each planet there is going to be minimal defenses against an Imperial attack.

 

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Sorry, but incorrect. Phased ships are still vulnerable to a few things. tractor beams and artificial gravity are two. Also if they are phased they can't attack so it's to edged blade.

As for transphasic torpedoes. We know they defeat Borg defenses, but have no proof on anything else. Since SW vessels continously deal with shielding themsleves from an alternate reality and their shields are vastly different, Transphasics could simply be a dud, even if they were used.

 

Oh yes, that will be productive. The man has left reason behind a long time ago.

Actually, we see Worf use a phaser for 2-3 seconds to disintegrate a few ten thousands of cubic centimeters of granite. Riker said that his phaser strike would obliterate half a building. Remember the man must have been bluffing as we have visual that does not confirm what he said.

You just lied twice.

The CIS Invisible hand was already all but destroyed before it even made it's decent. The landing on the hardened runway at 5000+ m/second did minor damage to the outer bottom hull after the ship reentered atmosphere, had it's paint catch aflame and slam hard into a runway when it had no landing gear and was not designed to ever land.

Yoyager survived a plummet as significatnly less than light. If it had been any over .1c you would not even been able to see the imapct. Remember also that the the Slipstream and warp drive mean that the ship had no mass and no momentum. In fact the ship had less mass than photons so the power of her hit would still be substiantial, but far less devastating than one would think

Actually, we have seen time and time again that Phasers are effective assassination weapons, but in warfare they suck ass.

The Emperor had not foreseen the Ewoks entering the fray. So had sent his most loyal troops not the 501st. As for Stormtrooper Tactics if you watch again Storm troopers do take cover. Let's say there were 500 troopers they were facing 50 commandos and 1500 insurgents. While the Ewoks seem harmless they did demonstrate they were roughly as strong as a grown man, engineering skill far beyond their material base, and a thorough knowledge of traps and terrain. the Rebel Commandos are equivalent of Army Rangers. Want s demonstration of how badass they are watch Blackhawk Down. Then there is the force sensitive Liea, The absolute luckiest man in the galaxy and a wookie warrior widely regarded as the second greatest wookie in history. To compound matter primative traps destroyed several if the light armor and the remaining piece was stolen by the Wookie.

Se above and learn oh judgemental one.

Would that be why they can;t destroy anything even remotely as large as SW vessels have? Would that be why they taken 10 seconds to do what took SW 1/15th of a second? Would that be why 400 gigawatts is considered a great threat? Sorry but your own canon complete disagrees with that.

Ad hominim

Saying it amny, many times without any proof does not make it true.

Of course you are. You hate the truth becuase you think somehow it means something more than just...."Well in a war Star Wars wins." You fail to see that it does not diminish anything about Star Trek at all.

 

1. why are phased ships vulnerable to tractors and artificial gravity? (source)
2. and we see blasters efective against storm troopers only and TLs against rocks only (or tiny straight moving corvettes), does this mean they are useless against anything else? in ST, Borg are suposed to be the Boogyman. if these thingies are efective against them well.... besides if transphasic means what it usually means in ST, then the only defence is a transphasic/temporal shield or someething.

as for the weak point in STFC, it was a weak point only because the cube was allready badly damaged.

 

It's post future janeway already, so transphasic torps are in full production.

They "bypass" borg defenses by, oh, surprise surprise given the name, PHASING OUT OF REALITY! Then they re-enter reality INSIDE the ship and big boom.

 

It is the Star Wars Saga. Do you know what are YHV blaster cannons?

 

No they hate losing.

 

depends on what you see as losing :bugeye:

 

I think it likely, considering Picards Actions- He did not execute the order immediately to destroy the Cube and after taking a moment to listen- That Picard was targeting the exact location of the Queen.

If you notice the point of fire was directed at the lower part of the Cube and the Sphere emerged from the same area on a different face.

I

 

Saquist, if you watch the scene again, that part of the cube already had heavy visual damage

 

Centerpoint Station can destroy a Borg planet with no problem.

 

What, you have a thermometer that measures heat from a visual medium? I call bullshit there. Wet wood is very hard to light, I know becuase i lived with a wood fiurnace for many years. As for the catapult the only time i saw a catapult shot by the blaster on and AT-ST there was not much left from a direct hit.

BTW an AT-ST is analogous of a current HMMWV. It's a light scouting vehicle that can carry limited troops and has limited firepower.

However this does not let ST off any hooks as at least Blasters leave scorch marks, Phasers don;t even manage that 99.9% of the time.

We see them blow gaping molten hot holes in Stormtrooper armor and in ANH see Han's handgun blow massive chunks of ferrocrete out of a wall designed to resist the backblast of plasma engines.

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there is also this door blasted apart in ANH

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Actually the there is no weakness in a diamond crystal structure as the diamond is one massive molecule. And diamond dust would hinder such a cutting process. In actuality gem diamonds are not pure diamonds and have many nonvisible flaws which cuases cleaving. However if we had a perfect diamond, cutting it would be nigh impossible.

Alloy was indeed mentioned by Lt. Worf. Same for the Jem' Hadar facilitiy which actually predates the first hominids on earth, as would the Dyson Sphere. Some culture had to deal with what ST refers to as Neutronium and since it acts no different than a super heavy metal it was likely mined especially if they built with it. And considering three radically different technologies designed it is likely that three different ccultures knew how to deal with it. So it must have been at least somewhat common. Especially to build the Dyson sphere.

As for the resistance to Phasers. If it is collapsed matter there is absolutely no atomic or molecular bonds to tear apart. If it is just a heavy, energy resistant metal it is likely just immune to nadion bombardment as it simply takes far too much energy to break apart.

Well, they would agree with you especially since the 93 crash was in a mantle plate plate fold mountain that was actually rock. Not some hill of dirt. Also the speed and condistion of the ship have some influence.

To be a fair approximation of the CIS Invisible hand landing the Eneterprise D Saucer section would have had to been completely unpowered, moving 20 times as fast as it was, and have lost structural integrity due to combat. It also would need only 2 crew and Data and the President of the Federation. Fianlly it would have had been designed specifically not to land even in an emergency.

Yeah well, I had to yank you too,

Actually, becuase when ever we see something on Star trek that is phased it still is affected by gravity.

 

Actually you're end is pointless. SW ships do not fire laser beams. They fire particle bolts. The resuling backlash would have no way of reaching the ship that fired the weapon with the possible exception fo the Death Star and Eclipse Star Destroyer. There might be some so of subatomic explosion, but without enough matter between point A and B to conduct it, the effect would be pointless. Simple science here.

Actually, most planets have their defenses on all the time. Planets lower their shields to let ships in. As for the ship appearing and disappearing quickly. Going by the movies that still takes several minutes for a navigator to do. So the pop in might be safe, but unload and popping away may not happen fast enough to save the vessel.

Uh, Stoneburner in Children of Dune did not even destroy a large small portion of a large city. Sorry, but I pay very close attention.

Okay, you are failing to see the real picture here. Warp and Hyperspace would free the great houses from the opression of the Emperor and the Guild. No longer would either be needed just to commence trade. The later would still be useful. But they would not have a stranglehold on everything. The Great Houses would gladly turn on the Leto and the Guild becuase they would no longer need them. We saw it happen before in Dune and it will happen again, Fuedal systems are notoriously easy to tear apart from within. besides being a member of the Federation or the Empire would be unprecedented freedom for the people of the Dune universe.

 

Due to Antaran's argument below this attack seems feasible, but a lot of effort and time to expend on each ship. Dune ships outnumber ST. All Dune needs is a feasible attack... something within their tech development.

1. yes, I grant that ST weapons could be used without reprecussions for the moment. I have to read the Legends of Dune trilogy to get a closer understanding of the mechanics again. And thus the strategy by Kittamaru would be effective. Star wars doesn't have the ability to use TL in wide dispersal like the ST phasers can and would be ineffective on the holtzman shields.

2. I've been considering a formidable weapon that could be used by Dune. We have the capability to fold-jump... and we have stoneburners and obliterators. With the advent of ixian navigation machines it is completely possible for the Dune universe to use these in combination for a weapon akin to transphasic torpedoes. The reason it hadn't been done could be attributed to the holtzman field that ships use causing the jumps to be unsuccesful and ineffective. So payload delivery... 15 secs to set the navigation coordinates and another 15 to jump out for a total of 30 secs in combat.

3. The large scale combat would occur yes, but dune has the better espionage capability and ground force capability and a possibly brilliant tactic (see above) to deal with space encounters.

5. A.They have to realize that it is a ship that is causing the fluctuations before they can do anything about it. And they have to know where the point of origin is.

B. Subspace is a layer of space; while it can be used as a tool when detecting the ships has been figured out, it is ineffective to detect the ship on its own.

C. I seriously doubt that the SW universe could detect null-space and so it wouldn't matter. I mean, sensors couldn't even detect the millenium attached to the star destroyer's hull

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D. Like I said before, Dune takes great leaps in tech when there is sufficient crisis. The tech advantage can be overcome by superior tacticians.

This brings me to the point of espionage. Facedancers, Bene Gesserits, and all the Great Houses were expert spies. You have to in a stagnate universe that relies only on severe crisis for progress.

If a visual communication were to happen between a starfleet ship and one led by a bene gesserit, the starfleet ship would be in the command of the bene gesserit within a couple hours by just talking. Voice is a wonderful thing!

 

Yer a douche scott, face it. You love your fanboy wank and hate the facts that prove you wrong. Go sod off and die.

 

That is what I was about to say. The blast split the tree into peices. I threw a wet wood in a camp fire at a scout camp, it didn't burn for a long time.

AT-ST= All Terein Scout Transport, it is equal to AT-PT. ( all terin personal transport

Remember the Episode on Voyager with the Macroviruses? Here is what happened when Janeway shot a Macrovirus with a phaser rifle: 1 second duration hit, 3 seconds later it explodes into big peices.

And Leia's sporting blaster.

That is made out of Durasteel, let see a phaser do that.

1. Invisible Hand is not build to land period
2. It is only crew by Anakin Skywalker ( who did most of the work ), Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Palpatine ( that did nothing )
3. The landing did no damage, the Turbolaser scars did



Actually, becuase when ever we see something on Star trek that is phased it still is affected by gravity.[/QUOTE]
So Star Wars can use Gravity Wells.

I improved it a bit.