Star Wars vs Star Trek

The simple fact is this.

Voyager has taken out the Equinox's engines at 50,000 KM away. Seeing as how Turbolasers go so slow, they can rarely hit something a few hundred meters away, it is easily shown that any ST ship can maneuver around SW turbolasers! Even the biggest ST ships can!

 

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That's assumping we're talking about Firepower...that's assuming the composition of the Rebel Fleet exceeded the ability of a Galaxy Class Starship.

Yes as a matter of fact I have at least two.
A New Hope (Death Star Tractors the Millenium Falcon with Deflectors up)
Heir to the Empire (Luke Skywalkers fighter is tractored by the Star Destroyer Chimera)

WOW. 3 to Four Km long?! I didn't know that. That might be a problem for a Galaxy Class ship to tow against it's will. However I never ask "why wouldn't they" on any issue. It's fiction there can be any reason. The question is...is there a reason provided.

I've seen the same calculations. In a nutt-shell I think their ridiculous. The physics at issue make the resulting vaporization and or explosions inconsistent with the amount of fire power those calculations are proposing.

As a result I've settled on relying on a more compartive approach, it's simple and less subjective to the problems of reality that multi gigaton figures present. It's just not logical to extrapolate fire power in some cases from a 2D aspect that requires a 3D enviroment. The ICS actually contradicts visuals in ESB of fighters striking the asteroids with nothing more than firecracker effects in the Falcon chase...or the Naboo fighter brought down by a sub-kiloton Droid tank, or Artoo struck by two beams from a Tie Fighters. And then these Fighters take on captial ships...I of course saw an huge gap in the percepived firepower and the stated firepower. Not to mention the Vong War completely contradict the ICS figures and the calcuations with the exchanges between the Yuuzahn Vong Cruiser Analogs and ISD's aswell the World Ship's verses the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya which apparently didn't have a chance against lava geysers and grutchins.

I took one case from Star Wars and from Star Trek of ships firing on unshielded objects.

Unfortunantly Star Wars uses the "Asteroid Field" as the "Primary"
In Star Trek I used an unshielded ship as the "Primary"

I can't find my figures on this forums that I had posted...but the effect is this. The asteroid in ESB is thought to be either 5 or 40 meters wide. I chose 40 and compared it to the Enterprise's first encounter with the Borg Cube in which the Enterprise destroys three sections of the Cube in seconds at the total amount of 30% damage to the vessels superstruture.

The Cube shape made it easy to establish how many meters from the total length (3040m) had been vaporized in one shot. The amount was 244m of Borg vessel vaporized in a second 732m in three shots. That's 6.1 times the area of 40 meter wide asteroid. Or more than the size of a Miranda/Reliant class starship and FAR MORE the mass of a MCS.

Apparently a Borg Cube is highly dense.
And the Cube is constructed of space worthy refined metals (this particular cube was not armored.)

Later, what Data describes as "a scout ship similar to the one that crashed" comes to the area to find the crashed ship. Data reads its mass as 2.5 million tonnes. Even if we assume that the crashed vessel is much bigger than what we saw on the planet ...But at 2.5 million metric tons, the ship would have a mass over three times that of Voyager. Unless we try to make the ship ridiculously large, this must imply a very high density.-G2k

There is even a quote from seven identifying just how dense a borg ship is. I'll have to stumble across it again one day. (however this isn't a TNG borg cube figure) Yet I'll stick to the "Hugh" scout ship comparison from the TNG.

Borg ships are made of Tritanium, almost impossible to melt, 21.4 times harder than diamond.

Now compare this with the 40 meter wide asteroid. We have to identify what kind of laser the ISD was firing. Anti-fighter or... Heavy Ship to Ship Turbo laser. I chose Anti-Fighter because we've not seen the big guns fire on an ISD. This is very powerful for an anti-fighter weapon. It obliterates fighters completely making shields almost irrelevant. But as a ship to ship weapon compared 6-8 times may be a bit conservative considering the high density of the Borg Cube. So we maybe looking to 6-10 times...because that small Borg Scout ship was more than 3 times the mass of the Starship Voyager at 344m long.

As to the fire power of the Heavy Turbo Laser...who knows. It could fit under or Below the GCS Fire power, nevertheless comparison shows Fighter weapons and Anti fighter weapons will be neglible against the GCS.

 

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No John. Don't think too hard about time paradoxes. If the Warsies change their minds and go back, then the timeline in which the Trek-Wars fight occurs does not happen and will never happen.

What COULD actually happen is that if the Warsies really have some sort of ooga-booga future sight, they may, for the first time ever, get TWO visions of the same event. But more logically, their vision of the future if they retreat is the survival of the Warsie fleet. Their vision of the future if they attack is the unexplained destruction of the fleet. There is no time paradox here.

No, unfortunately I find that every time Trekkers find an "i win" clause, Warsies try to limit the discussion somehow. However, when Trekkers point out the same problem with some Warsie points, you Warsies say "neener neener, it's the EU" or some other rubbish. The Future Federation exists in Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek Enterprise. It is canon and can be used in this argument.

Yes. Problem with that?

 

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You really need to stop harping on this.

The Starship Relativity's mission is to preserve the timeline that results in its own "present". They state it on the same episode in explaining themselves to Seven of Nine. Anything that happens outside of the timeline that led to their future UFP will be dealt with as necessary. A Warsie invasion force will result in a temporal paradox of their (the Relativity's) existence, which they correct by stopping the Warsies and restoring their UFP.

It's the best "I Win" button since the Warsies cried foul with the Q and the Q Continuum. Unbeatable as far as I see, until some upstart Wong-ite decides to write an EU book with the Jedi suddenly gaining the power of time travel. Which we will dismiss out of hand anyway.

 

You know D...now we know why they went back and saved Voyager from the bomb Braxton tried to plant. Voyager would go on to bring technology from the future back to the Federation in just a couple of years...That's why they didn't reset the timeline like they did in Relativity...they wanted that technology to get back to earth because I bet you...Janeway had an idea of what would happen if the Borg remained as strong as they did.

I bet you the Borg have attacked the future and this was the only way to stop them.

 

And that is why time travel is best left out of shows. Too many ifs and it hurts most peoples brains.

If the Hoth asteroid field was made by two planets colliding, just like our moon was, then doesn't it make sense that they would have similar properties? What I'm saying is that its possible that these asteroids have a surface composed of actinides, lanthanides, and any of the transition metals. All of which are relatively rare in most asteroids, the most common being Nickel-Iron asteroids. But if these asteroids are the result of a collision, then wouldn't make sense that it would have an uneven density?

What I mean is that instead of having a near uniform pattern like the meteors in our solar system, what if they were more like a "pizza"? What I mean by that is that its a random mess of diffrent elements and alloys. And the heat caused by two planets colliding would cause elements to fuse and melt, resulting in a dark patches of smooth maerial like those on our moon. So isn't possible that each asteroid in the field has a diffrent compositon? Unless we know the primary elements composing both planets, we have no idea what most are made of, and so have to assume that each rock is an unevenly distributed "mixture" of elements.

If anyone knows more aout the proto-Earth collision, I'd greatly like a helping hand here. What I'm saying is that no two asteroids are alike here...

 

I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption.

Unfortunately, that doesn't actually say much. Let me ask you, being you are making a claim about the star wars shielding technology, is it that the shields don't protect star wars ships or is it that sw tractor beams aren't affected by shields at all to begin with? One option claims sw shields are limited while the other claims that sw tractor beams are advanced. Both possibilities are supported by the canon evidence. What im curious about is canonically speaking, how you are eliminating one possiblility and asserting the other?

Yeah they can "grow" to be pretty massive depending on how long they are active. I don't know if this is canon or not but I have read some fansites claiming that some World devastators have reached lengths up to 10 km.

The thermodynamic approach taken by some people who calculated energy needed to vaporize a 20 meter astroid looks pretty good to me. And I do have a background in thermo as I am an engineer. However, the only assumptions that Dr. Wong makes is the size and the composition of the astroids. Neither of the two I think are unreasonable. Besides those two assumptions it is a pretty solid scientific explanation of canonical observations from the movies. And now that the ICS, which is also considered lesser canon embraces such values. I know that the values that are being stated are borderline fantasy and not scifi. But this is a fiction based movie of make believe and if their canon said that dark jedi can kill the universe by dancing with a tutu then so be it.

Further more, we have examples even the newer sw movies of some fantastic fire power of torps from slave one shattering astroids well over 300 meters long and its turbolasers vaporizing small astroids.

Its nothing new that canons contradict themselves. Writers make stories for cash not consistancy. But what it comes down to is that we have to choose which canon examples to use for setting the upper limits of each galaxies tech. If we use the low power canon examples then we adopt a mind set that says no parts of the canon are wrong and we are right. If we adopt a view based off the most powerful canon examples we have view of the tech that agrees with the entire canon even if we have examples of them holding back on their fire power for reasons that make us scratch our head and wonder if the writers were high when they wrote it.

And there in lies a significant problem Saquist. You see, I claim that a single hand held phaser has enough power to destroy the entire enterprise D. Its canon really. You remember that episode where a klingon pointed a hand phaser thing at the warp core and it was stated that if he shot the entire ship would go up in a poof of smoke?

Obviously, you would first call me a retard and inform me that its not the strength of the hand weapon rather the small energy amount of the hand weapon plus the internal massive energy stored in a warp core it unleashed. And you would be right. But now I must scratch my head and wonder how do we know the borg ship that the enterprise fired upon is another example of this? Borg ships have an energy output of a small federation fleet! I would have to believe that none of that massive energy buildup in that ship contributed in addition to the enterprises phaser?

Don't get me wrong, im not saying all the damage isn't from the enterprise, but what I am saying is we need some sort of canon evidence to rule out that the phaser didn't hit some system that greatly aided the cubes damage like a warp core would do to a hand weapon.

Could you get me that bit of info? Id be very interested in knowing that.

 

Sure there is. The sith wouldn't see any possible avenue of victory if the future feds came into the equation. So as you put it "Trek-Wars fight occurs does not happen" so the relativity doesn't come back. All of a sudden an avenue of victory opens up. If the sith then decide to attack the victory path suddenly closes with the relativity entering the equation.

I don't know what you are talking about. I stated from the start of my posting that I am not "in" this debate because I refuse to go along with a set of conditions that violate each universes canon. You knew this from the start. No surprises.

Umm yeah, sounds like you are venting about somthing you should talk to your therapist about. With that said, I don't know why you are telling this to me Im not a "warsie". Remember I entered this discussion explaining how a borg cube would kill an ISD. Maybe you just needed my shoulder to cry on? :bawl:

Indeed it is canon. What Im trying to find is the specifics for "why" they would come back. I haven't seen the episode and I can't find a it on the internet. From the summaries I have seen they don't support the notion that the future feds will violate the natural time line to ensure their existance in all possible futures. Im not saying you are wrong and they wouldn't, Im just still in search for the evidence of it.

 

First off See my above post it sums up my position on this pretty good. Secondly if a sw invasion took place without time travel I don't see how its a temporal paradox of any sort. It just means that the future feds wont exist in all possible futures, but they would still exist regardless. Lastly, I agree if Q decided to get involved he would beat back the empire without beaking a sweat. But in my book thats a big IF. With that said jedi who time travel? Never heard of it. Sounds pretty stupid to me.

 

No thats a very legit question to ask. Id be interested in seeing someone take the time and run the numbers with various heat capacities and heats of vaporizations to determine by what factor it would alter Wong's numbers.

 

No I don't believe so either.

There are no qualifiers to either make the determination you desire. From a position of objectivity I can only observer the similarities not the advancement or primitiveness. Theyy aren't called advanced tractor beams nor are the shields refered to as primitive shield tech. My position is that of equality. As such in this case what we are told is a tractor beam attached it's self to shielded vessel.

We can ask for more qualifiers but we'll never get any real answers. With out further qualifiers to narrow down what you wish I'm forced to dtermine that tractors are unobstructed by shields. What you're saying is logical but I find the question unreasonable seeing as there will never be an answer. I'm forced to make an assumption. based on the information available.

Theorectical we could take all the comparisons down such a subjective road in which case theres no reason to assume phasers will have any effect on Star Wars shields or even bring back into contention the "laser" effectiveness on Trek shields or if a shielded weaon like a torpedo will work against Star Wars. It opens up a can of worms that questions should we even be relating the two. That makes firepower considerations by calulations utterly irreleveant. Let's work within the boundaries we have an not in what we don't have.

I recall the growing thing. I wasn't usre if this was part of any novel other than comics.

So be it.
I still contest the consistency.

it's difficult to categorize shatter firepower.
But the EII is not lost on me. It just does nothing to reprelsent typical fire power. i can't even say the blasters he was using were particularly effective since the composition of the asteroids was an unkown and unusual. Rings as we know them are ice not rock.. The Rings system was just as extensive as Saturns but around a rock planet. We have no common frame of refrence of durabilitty fo rhtese planetoids. So relation isn't possible. The looked like rock or they could have been rock Ice mixture. (I don't believe that) but it's a possibility.

hmm. I don't do the upper limit claim in a comparison study Upper limits can cause gaps in perception that have unreasonable effects in purpose and executioin during the story. ergo if they were this powerfull why not destroy them from orbit? Or if their this powerful then why are the fighters so weak. The logic doesn't follow and I perfer to follow patterns.

I recall.

There was no secondary explosions. The phaser effect was directly causal to the vaporization of the material. The effect was repeated with consistency three times. With out intervening data I'm forced to conclude that the phaser was the direct cause fot he vaporization effect. I was following you up untill this point.

Filming in movies and TV follows a cause effect relation ship. it's not always strick but what information you're given is what is what was being conveyed. If you're looking so deep that you still find no answers then what purpose is there for looking so deep?

There was no debris and the material was completely consumed. This isn't a matter of perspective on the secondary effects...there just is none. Considering the highly dense material of the ships surface I find it unlikely that it would contribute to it's own vaporization.

And it's not the only time we see it.
Voyager had similar effects on unshielded Kason ships smelting arears of armor nearly the size of Voyager it's self.

Enterprise completely vaporizes fighters with no debris and Star Wars anti fighter weapons always leave debris. It's pretty conclusive when the enterprise vaporizes a flight of 29 meter fighters in less than two seconds leaving no trace at all of their destruction.

You see comparison is m0re effective and telling than striving after these real world calcuations that no one from either universe ever considers in the special effects department.

They were displaying the power of a Galaxy Class starship in both cases. In one case it conveys a sense of victory in the other a sense of foreboding overkill.

Were the effect masters were trying to convey these things in Star Wars? Yes at certain points. Slave one's mysterious silent bomb. The Ion cannon from ESB, the Death Star. These are situations of overkill of desperation and victory.

Mind you the Falcon is around 26m long. The Enterprise easily vaporized these fighters with small beams split from the phaser array further displaying that it took a neglible amount of power.

I don't buy into the possibility unless I see a secondar explosion.
Deathstar
Malon Freighter hit by a cluster of torpedos.
Jabba's sail barg
Awings sraffing shield generator.....all secondary explosions.
It's the cause and effect and relationship. We are given the power of persption so lets use it. The director is counting on us to use it so that he can tell a story if we can't rely it then the story is purposely attempt to mislead us with out of sequence events such as mysteries often do. But the Director isn't attempt to do so in these films and shows so let us not assume as much without cause. That's my position.



Could you get me that bit of info? Id be very interested in knowing that.[/QUOTE]

I'm not in a search mode this week and I certainly don't have all the voyagerr episodes but when I know you'll know.

 

Sorry bout the spelling erros I now they're there but I don't have my contacts on right now.

I want to add:

This is why I take two common and equal occurences that are devoid of these extra consideration.

The parameters for the comparison:
Unshield target.
Use of Beam weapon.
No Secondary effects.
Vaporiazation

So I look at the calculations. I can't disagree with the numbers and I won't untill they become inconsistent with other displays of fire power. Vaporization occurs no where else by a ISD. Just asteroids. If this were true then they should have no problem with vaporizing a fighter. (with sporadic shielding.starwar.com)
Measure of elapsed time.
No armor preferable.

Afterwards I form a chain or domino effect of events.

Leia is wouned by a blaster golt
Artoo is damaged by a blaster bolt causing (onscreen and in novels)
Artoo is damaged by a Tie Figher.

(These three occurences are within range) classified subkiloton.

Droid tanks fire on Gungans.
Droid tanks fire on a N-1 fighter [destruction]
N-1 Fighter fires on Destroyer droids [Destructioin.

(These three occurences are with range) classified subkiloton

LINK

Droid Fighter fires on N-1 Figher [destruction]
N-1 Fighter fires on Droid Fighter [destruction]
Droid Fighter fires on N-1 Fighter (damage)

(These three occurences are within range) classified sub kiloton

N-1 Fighter fires on Droid Battle ship (no damage)
N-1 Fighter fires on Droid Battle ship reactor (destruction)

Inconsistency/ Multi mega ton explosion - kiloton explosion (same weapon)
Explanation: Explosion expansion in the vaccuum of space. Down grade to Kiloton explosion.

Tie Fighter fires on Ywing (destruction)
tie fighter fires on X wing (desturction)
X wing fires on Tie Fighter (destruction)
Falcon fire on Tie fighter (destruction)
Tie fighter fires on asteroid surface (no damage)
Tie fighter fires on rocks ( ignites)
Awing fires on SSD (damage)
Xwing fires SSD (damage)
Tie bomber fires on asteroid (no damage)
Slave one fires on obi wan (no damage)
Slave one fires on asteroid (vaporized)
Tower fires on X wing (obliterated)
Towever fires on Y wing (obliterated)
Tower fires on A wing (damaged)

Inconsisteny: (classifed as no damgage - multi kiloton explosions)
Action Taken:
Throw out Tie fighter asteroid
Throw out Slave one obiwan
Throw out Tie bomber asteroid


The comparison shows Artoos' extensive damage was of subkiloton nature as were the destruction of the fighter to fighter engagements.. The use of terristrial fire power being used is evidence by the Artoo /Leia comparison and then by the Tie Fighter /Artoo comparison. While Artoo/ Tie fighter was a encounter of greater magnitude than the Leia/ Artoo comparisonn the damges are within concievable ranges. Leia would have been vapoirzed by the Tie fighter shot that struck Artoo...similary Artoo was damage by the surge of a blaster bolt to a sensisty area. Survival occured from both cases and establishes NON Megaton or Kiloton for that matter.

It progress comparatively from their to the captial ship engagements. It leads me to conclude that the asteroid being used in ESB is either smaller than implyed by Wong or the substance of weak material. Considering the far off range of Fire power from captial ship anti fighter weapons to Fighter weapons that is being proposed by Wong, and considering that all cannon presents Fighters as instrument to fleet actions I must conclude that the nature of the perception of the position and size and distance of the asteroid in ESB has been over estimated serverely. It is the only variable inconsistent with the remaining relationships.

 

I'm not even responding directly to your counter arguments John. You do not have a grasp of timelines. The Warsies have one decision to make (two choices). The psychic Warsies will 'know' if the decision is to plow into Federation space, their ships will be destroyed. Even if they turn back, and the Relativity now has no reason to intervene, a change of mind to attack again will reveal the SAME unexplained loss. There is no time paradox in this supposition of yours. Their decision to attack will always reveal an unexplained, unviewable loss.

To address the issue of "temporal paradox". Just because the Warsies did not use a method of time travel does not mean that a temporal paradox does not exist if they attack the Picard era UFP. It does, simply because the Warsies do not belong in the UFP timeline. This is a temporal paradox in and of itself, that might threaten the existence of the successful future UFP.

I hope I've made things a little clearer. Temporal issues simply are not as madcap as you want them to be.

 

I decided to respond to this. I provided you with a paraphrased quote from the episode itself. Short of providing a clip (which I can), I don't see what your problem is. It was explained to Seven of Nine that the Relativity is responsible for correcting errors in the timeline that might threaten the stability of their present (Seven's future). I would think that a Warsie invasion...where they do not belong...qualifies. End of story.

 

I have to agree.
Even if the Invasion were apart of the time line then the existence of the Federation in the 29th century shows that invasion came to a halt or a peace was struck aside from that temporal inflences such a Jedi capalble of altering the time line would simply be located and transported out from the time line as was done Captain Braxton.

 

Here is the crux of the matter. You are correct they don't in the star trek story. However in the trekwars saga as its being told on this forum they belong to the timeline as much as romulins and klingons.

 

My "problem" is a paraphrase isn't good enough. What I need for my own personal edification is the clip because your paraphrase isn't canon the clip is.

 

I think you are making this far far to complex. Here is what we know from canon observations (correct me if im wrong). In both galaxy tech sets tractor beams can be locked on shielded targets. We see this on many times in star wars and we see this many times with the borg. Its just the federation that seem not to be able to do this. So as I see it, its not the shileding because with both types of shield technology tractor beams can be locked on. Rather its the technology of the tractor beams themselves. The borg and the empire just seem to have more advanced tractor beam technology than the federation has.

Im not sure, I am not well read on many of the star wars eu.

I am right beside you contesting consistance. We can write letters together to the writers of each franchise asking them to get the universe straight.

Actually Ring composition is not well known for any planet except for saturn. So its impossible to say that rings in general are ice not rock. Rather, the only thing we can say is the specifically around Saturn are mainly ice and not rock.

http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/planet_sci/contents/chap4c.html

"The composition of ring particles is well known only for Saturn. Spectroscopic, thermal, radio, and neutron measurements combine with estimates of mass density to suggest that Saturn's ring particles throughout are almost entirely water ice with just a little contaminant to account for an observed reddening. For the other ring systems, the particles superficially resemble the contiguous small moons; probably these rings contain silicate and, in the cases of Uranus and Neptune, possibly carbonaceous material. In Saturn's rings, color and albedo variations hint at modest compositional differences across various radial regions of the rings. "

So you see the composition of rings appear to be diverse from planet to planet. In the movie they sure do look like solid rock (silicates/metal oxides) and so that is the most reasonable assumption.

Hardly, in fact its the only way to be able to have a view of a technology set that doesn't get directly contradicted by the canon. As for why don't they just kill them from or bit or why do fighters die so easy is easy to explain. ITs because writers allow contradictions into a story line so that it looks good on the big screen. They have things called character shields and so we have to accepted a degree of contradiction in any plot line. Thats why we take the most powerful canon examples and try to reconstruct a consistant view of each galaxies power.

You make a good point here. Lets say for a moment that the phaser supplied the bulk of the energy to do the work we see in best of both worlds. So lets, you and I, try to run these calculations and see what we come up with.


What we need is:

The volume of material vaporized
The density of a material vaporized
The heat capacity of the material used to make a borg cube.
The initial temperature inside of a cube
The temperature of vaporization for that material used to make a cube.

Im going to start looking for this info and I would appreciate your help. What I need from you before I start is a suggestion where I can look to find this canon supported info? According to paramount only the movies/tv shows are canon right?

Correct, and that is why we don't pay attention to the special effects, rather we look at the information that the writers give us. Its pointless to look compare the brightness of a flash of the two galaxies and try to determine who has a more powerful weapons. All we just found out was who has a larger special effects budget.

 

Is http://www.ditl.org/ a valid source being it cites the episodes?

 

What we've seen in Star Trek is that Federation Tractors can lock and hold targets with shields up. One such event is the Episode "The Battle" The Stargazer preforms "The Picard Manuver" and the Enterprise seizes the ship with a Tractor beam.

Event 2: Second Borg Encounter.
The Federation learns to resist tractor beam by rotating shield frequencies.

In Star Trek shields can resist all directed energy beams.

Voyager substaniates this continual by both being held and attempting to break tractor beam locks. Voyager shows that it's not an issue of superior technology but of power. TNG showed that sometimes a lock can be resisted by Frequency Modulation.

First Contact effectively showed that the issue of power can be shrugged off the shields of the Sovereign class starships. Either the strength or the lock was defeated. More likely it's the lock that was defeated as the Enterprise can not hope to match the power output of a Borg Cube.

So don't jump to the conclusion of advanced technology. The Borg aren't always and often are not a good example of Advanced Technology. There origins are from the Delta Quadrant. The tech avaiable in this area of the Galaxy is primitive compared to Star Fleet standard during the TNG era. Infact the Borg overwhelm their targets. There were only two Advanced demonstration during that intial encounter. The shield disruption weapon and the regeneration.

Currently because of new assimilations the Borg have shown new technology after encountering the Federation.
Transwarp
Transwarp Conduits

I speak of consistency not just of the writers but the visuals as well which will assist in determining the common strength instead of "upper limits" and "lower limits" that will create a gulf in engagement interaction.

Jupiters rings are dust
Saturns are ice
Uranus rings are dust partiles and ice (still and unknown)
neptue clumps of dust and microscopic dust.

What I'm saying that not only is it usual for a rocky planet to have rings it's usual for a rocky planet to have rings of asteroids. I'm wondering if this could ever happen in real life. Gravitional influence would have destroyed or brought down such are chuncks long ago.

Including all the information will surely lead to a contradiction. If you take the most power and pit the an inexplicably weak power in competition then you've found a contradition anyway.

I'm not sure if my calcuations are 100 percent correct but they are expressed in terms of the volume of missing area of the Borg cube. I guess this would be a spherical area of 244m.

Only vague and conflicting accounts are availble.

39.1 degree C

That's correct. According to Marco Palmieri non of the books or comics nor the Animated Series are admissable to Canon and neither are any of the technical manuls.

Both the Galaxy Class and the Intrepid class bulkheads are contructed of Tritanium. I would suggest Memory Alpha or G2k's Star Wars Star Trek tech assesment as reliable sources for trek canon. Under Starship Volumetrics.

The only thing we don't seem to have is the vaporization temperature

I move for a combination of both. After all Wong does assume that the asteroid was vaporized. The issue is whether you believe it real or was this a case of a low VFX budget . Again in a lateral comparison the Star War's films have always had higher budgets than any of the series or the 10 movies of Star Trek.

When I sought out this true comparison my mission was to extablish and equallity. I believe I've done and the consistency in that Firepower flows pretty much from start to finish. Trek tends to tell us when dialed down power occurs or there is an alteration. Often star Wars fans must guess and that's why I have such and issue with TWSCOTT. He never assumes that all the occurence of inferrior firepower I present are actual fire power but for some illogical reason....

Say Falcom vs Tie fighter.
If the ISD was striking the Mellinium Falcon with as much firepower as Wong's calucations suggest then the effects of Tie Fighters against the asteroid below the Falcon tell us that this would be the equivilent of applying a hot Iron to the Falcon's shields. (In other words there was no danger)

This is not the only time we run into this problem as the list I complied above tells us. There is repeated inconsistency with Wong's calculations. The cause effect relations on screen is being disrupted by this "upper limits". That's a contradiction to the canon. Since the calculations are merely based off canon and not actually are canon there is no obligation to retain them.


Obviously I've thrown them out the window.
The size of the asteroid must to overestimated. That is likely as I said do to the position of the asteroid between us and the ISD. The cause and effect relationship comes into play again when we consider why the asteroid that struck the Command Tower was not fired on at all. There were no markings of blasting on the rock and the ISD is riddled with gun emplacements.

Logic suggest that these larger asteroids weren't capable of being destroyed quickly and that manuvering was necessary to avoid collisions which means that this was a situation of a decision to move rather than fire. He likely should have done both. .