Star Wars vs Star Trek

Actually, there was a time frame - under an hour if I'm not mistaken.


As for the energy emitted by those engines... consider the output of a modern day scramjet engine. Now, consider that same engine can be disabled by a simple .50 caliber bullet... yeah. Their "energy output" has NOTHING to do with it's ability to withstand weapons fire. None. What. So. Fucking. Ever. Period. With a Cap P.

 

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Actually, 1) It took the DS how long to get into position? More than "seconds". 2) It's a single station that can do it... we can mass produce Defiants by the hundreds, if not thousands. 3) Defiants can be cloaked quite easily... good luck cloaking THAT things energy output. Oh, wait, you don't really HAVE cloaking technology. I forgot about that... how primitive...

Consider it would take a Constellation class less than an HOUR to do it (NCC 1701) and then upscale that to the Sovereign class... yeah.

 

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Now, if you don't mind, I have to go to work.

 

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Hey Scott, come back to respond to those posts about ten pages back? You know, the ones that beat the pants off of your arguments and sent you running? Or were you just busy?:shrug:

The Galaxy class is somewhat slower than most UFP ships. The reason is because the ship was impart because it was practically a city. There were families and schools onboard that ship, as that was the whole point of the Galaxy class starship. When deprived of its forward hull, the Galaxy class is actually a lot more manuverable than it is with it. Sadly, this experiment was somewhat of a bust as it didn't really seem to help in battles.

The Galaxy is pretty much the slug of STL fighting. It isn't bad, and it's still ten times more manuverable than an ISD.

But you want manuverability? Take a look at the Soverign, Akira, Nebula, Defiant, Excelsior, Miranda, Cosntitution, Nova, Steamrunner, and the Prometheas (sp?)

All of those ships are incredibly manuverable, very much so the Defiant.

They actually are, though at STL, not much slower. You see, the reason why TL suck is because they are not only slower and somewhat akward, but because the ships they are on are so poorly designed that it isn't even funny,

And as for the Defiant, it's a thousand times more manuverable than the ISD, has better aim, and is capable of slagging a planet. Given that it's a ship designed to destroy other ships, that's damn impressive.

Which would be why the Empire sent them in to find the MF in that asteroid field? Funny, if it had been the Enterprise D, they wouldn't have even bothered, since their armor has resisted MT level firepower, they have a deflector dish, and they can manuver.

Who cares? I honestly do not see why anyone even mentions transporters as mass weapons of destruction. UFP weaponry will tear through Imperial shielding like a Space Marine through toilet paper, so why is this even mentioned?

Bull. In one episode we even see that the Enterprise D is capable of targeting several small drone ships. Furthermore, their shots are very accurate. Do they miss at times? Yes. But their percentage is around 70-80%, as opposed to the Imperial 20-30% figure. Taking a few instances and claiming that to be it is nothing but dishonest. We even have figures of a Nebula class starship having ranges up to 200,000 kilometers.

Wht are you talking about? The Defiant class has been seen in use up to five times. First is the USS Defiant, then the USS Defiant A (they couldn't put it on the ship because they used stock footage, but as far as the writers concerend, it's the Defiant A), the the USS Valiant, then we have the the two that accompanied the Akira to recover the Prometheas. That is actually a decent number of warships shown for Star Trek, as we most often only see one type of ship for most of the series. Sure, the Dominion war showed only a few, but surely not all the Defiant class ships escaped battles with only weak shields and hull damage. Some were destroyed and some were in other parts of the Alpha/Beta Quadrent fighting the war against the Dominion.

Well, if we were to be realisitic, the Empire would have to spend time setting up a new hyperspace pathways or some such. And even if we ignore that, how do they get to the ST universe? A Wormhole perhaps? You realise that the Federation can deploy cloaked self-replicating mine fields at the tip of the hat?

And really, 3,000 ships eh? I've already proven that the Federation has firepower far surperior to that of the Empire. In their initial volly, 20 ST ships were able to destroy 30% of a planet's crust. In fact, if you go here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...151&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

The first barrage lasted from time index 0:23 to 0:27, that gives us a total of about four seconds that the ships were firing. So, in 4 seconds flat, a UFP ship can easily vaporise 1.5 of a planet's crust. Hmm, I wonder how long it would take to destroy the whole thing? Well, let's see...that would be (4*100) divided by 1.5 if I'm doing my math right. That would be 266.6666667 or 267 seconds to vaporise the entire planetary crust of a earth size planet. Or 4 minutes, 44 seconds. That would be one ship, a fleet of twenty ships would do it in 13 seconds. For the fleet in Best of Both Worlds? About seven seconds. 60 ships? 4 seconds. 80 ships? 3 seconds.

And that was before they started fielding the Defiant, Akira, Soverign, Steamroller, and Excelsior upgrades.

Yeah, because destroying 30% of a planet is right within the megaton park.:bugeye:

But even if we assume it was phasers...how does that help you? There were less than twenty phaser/Disruptor shots fired in TDiC, which means the phasers are going to be easily vaporising entire ships with ease.

 

Who cares? Why would the ship waste it on a piece of shit like an Imperial fleet? That's for the planet.

You mean the civilization that cant' cloak their own ships? Romulan shuttles, which are the same size as the MF can cloak, and the one in ST 10 was far more advanced than that one. So yeah, I think UFP sensor technology is just a bit better.

Oh, that and when something attaches to the back of their bridge, they can detect it.

 

1) You accelerate from sublight to millions of times the speed of light in amatter of a second and even a 99.999999% inertial dampener well have some creaks and groans.
2) That was english. Meaning SW has devices that keep them from going out of synch with the rest of the universe when they travel in hyperspace
3)Corrected and I guess you discount all the vessels shot down by turreted weapons becuase they don't jive with your figures, right?
4) No, they fight at Sublight except for rare times they fire torpedoes at warp. Nemesis is best example of the loss of effectiveness. It fired several photon torpedoes on the Unshielded Enterprise during warp and damge to the Enterprise was minimal. You will not it only fired photons at warp and slowed to sublight to fire disrupters and phasers. The brilliant Shinzon did not even think to just keep moving warp and firing spread after spread of photon torpedo. Hell the Picard maneuver has the vessel slow to sublight again before firing, despite that you could program the computer to fire while at warp. So obvisously you have just not paid any attention to the fight scenes at all.

Oh you mean the timeline that Janeway invalidated by travelling back in time? Oooh got you didn't I?

 

Scotty was told to start it is Kirk did not report back in a set amount of time.

The energy output of a scramjet is still in the same realm as a .50cal. Now imagine something moving a few gigatons of metal at accelerations of >1km/s and then think of an engine cowling that can stand up to decades of that energy and tell me again how a megaton level weapon would do credible damage when you are shooting through shielding and the engine wash itself.

 

Actually, it would take about four minutes for a single UFP ship to slag a planet (as my figures above indicate). Given that was Garak's intent in a later episode, that's fits within the time frame that Garak was talking about.

A little optimistic that the Defiant would last that long though...

No it can't. Even the most wanked out crap is either 24 hours, or 1 hour. For one ship. The fact that the UFP can do it in four minutes indicates that the Empire is at best, 15x weaker than the Federation. Taking the 24 hours, that would make them 360x weaker.

Of course, since you lack proof of them being capable of doing so, I suggest you take your wank elseware. Don't make use send a hundred ships.

That would take about .13 seconds for a planetary crust.

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Wow, now if only you had any proof to counter TDiC and Broken Link...

 

There is cloaking technology is Star Wars, both forms are only detectable through hideously expensive and delecate gravimetric sensors. The tyrpe where it is not blinded by a magnetic pole. However considering that the DeathStar II can destroy a planet an hour an travel anywhere in the Federation in that hour I would say that in just a few hours planets would be surrendering in order not to be destroyed.

Again you are adding facts. Scotty was ordered to start razing the surface if Kirk did not respond in an hour. There was nothing that was ever mentioned on how long it took. However given other visuals we have seen it would have taken days/weeks. Sorry, but that's just the way those cookies crumble.

 

Sad to say that the Imperial Death Star's shields likely wouldn't hold up against the two or three starships that responded to the call. Sure, you MIGHT take out one planet, perhaps two...perhaps a few colonies orbiting the planets on moons...

But by then four or five UFP ships will be present and they'll have that death star deprived of most of it's outer hull in less than a minute.

TDiC and Broken Link say you're wrong.

 

Um, there were about twenty or so Dominion ships near them, so would you mind telling me where they would get all of this time? Also, the Defiant has 75 torps and we've seen in Nemisis that ships can use up their firepower in a realtively short time. Also, the time frame given to us in TDiC lines up with Garak's statement. Granted, it would take about 80% of the Defiant's firepower to do it.

 

I suppose I should get in on this...

UFP Commander: "Captain...why is that officer masturbating on his bridge?"

Imperial Captain: "Ohhh...yes...uber gigaton firepower...oh..ohhhhh yesssss..."

UFP Captain: "Back us away slowly ensign..."

Imperial Captian: "They must be rebels! Fire at will!"

UFP Captain: "I warn you, we don't wish to fight, but we will if we must!"

UFP Tactical Officer: "They are blasting us with their weapons...at this rate it would take about four hours for their weapons to drain our shields."

UFP Captain: "Captain, I warn you that this is an act of war against the Federation!"

Imperial Captain: "Hah! Our ships will swarm through your galaxy!"

UFP Captain: "Please, you can't even handle a bunch of rebels. We have a word for whiney bitches like you. Very well. You forced my hand. Commander, disable their engines and weapons!"

UFP tactical officer: "Yes sir, just let me...oops."

*phaser beam vaporises the entire ship*

UFP Captain: "I said disable it!"

UFP Tactical officer: "I didn't mean to!"

 

OMG Does ALCATRAZ KNOWS SCOTTY IS LOOSE AGAIN?!!!!

 

Really, since when have we seen Imp sheilds actually do something? 90%+ of the fire gets through... (when I say 90%+, I'd have to say evergything gets through.)

 

Seen the "canon" firepower for a TIE fighter? Hillarious.

And according to you, no one has proved anything. It's all about you isn't it?

 

I know that I would not be able to destroy an entire ISD with a single ship. But seeing how crappy sheilds are in SW, my quantum torps would get through (let alone 'turbo'laser fire) and I would destroy key areas. Bridge, power systems, engines, etc.

 

Busy. I do have a life after all. However there is not a single argument presented in favor of ST that hasn't been defeated soundly. Bringing up the same argument again is not a valid tactic.

Actually, the Galaxy is one of the faster vessels according to Star trek canon. Not really the most maneuverable as Defiant and Intrepid win that category, but a Galaxy is no more or less clumsy that ships of comparable size in the ST universe. Hell the lighter Sovereign has roughly the same maneuverability.

Unfortunately (for you) you did not prove me wrong. We can see from the shows that ships cannot dodge weaponry, simply try to evade a solid lock on.

Well considering that an ISD is ten times the mass of a Galaxy class ship that fits. However ISD's are not made tio dodge, they are true dreadnaughts. They wade in and destroy the enemy through superior firepower and defenses. And since a single Heavy Turbolaser fhas 4 times the output of a Galaxy Class warp drive, firepower and defense is heavily on the side of the ISD.

Defiant, Nova, and Intrepid have great manueverbility. The Akira, Miranda, Steamrunner, and Constitution are better than a Galaxy. While the Excelsior and Ambassador have slight better maneuvering. And I'm sorry but nebula and Soverign are on the same page as Galaxy. Sovereign can do some manevers better but as of yet can't do the pivot on a dime that Galaxy and Nebula can

Are you insane? Okay which ships have the powersource that can blow up if looked at wrong? Which ships have innumerable thin windows? Which ships rely on manuevering and speed to get their weapons in line with the enemy? Which ships use main power to charge weapons and shields? All of these design blunders are Star Treks.

And it is small and carries what wouldn't even qualify as light fighter weaponry.

Large dense asteroid swarm composed of the very minerals used in constructing ships, meaning the sensors were largely useless in searching except in close. Besides the federation would have lost them if Han had parked his vessel in plain sight in the magnetic pole.

As for the asteroid belt, the Eneterpirse D would have been pulverized in hours thanks to the multi gigatons impacts form materials stronger than tritanium.

Are you kidding? Most powerful Federation weapon is a maximum of 128 megatons thanks to canon. Heavy Turbolasers are 12.5 gigatons roughly a hundred times more powerful/

Okay so 80% of 12 shots every fifteen seconds is 38.4 hits per minutes with a payload of upto 128 megatons per hit. 10% of 60 shots per three seconds is 120 hits per minute with 500 megatons to 12.5 gigatons per hit. Which would you say is surperior

But if the smaller ships aren't seen to vastly outnumber the larger vessels on screen then there just aren't that many of them are there?

Hey, ET's vessel got here in less than 3 days from 300 million light years away and his species is from the SW universe! Hyperspace pathways became unneccesary over the evolution of the Hyperdrive. Welcome to realism.

So somehow 128 megatons is more than 12.5 gigatons? Also the scene you refer to there are far more than 20 ships firing on the planet. Just 20 ships in the scene they show. Common sense, dialog, and script have proven that MANY ships went on the mission. Also 30% of a planets crust being destroyed could mean anything. The visuals certainly did not match 30% of the crust being destroyed did it? Perhaps 30% of the surface of the planet being leveled, but that is about it.

But let's call it fair both ways 20 battleships fired one massive volley of specially prepared warheads to level 30% of the surface. (this is going by visual over dialog)

Okay so 20 Romulan and Cardassian Battleships took 4 second to level 30% of a planet. Meaning one Sovereign or Galaxy class could level level 1.5% of the panet per volley, given 15 second reload and recharge time that means it takes 19 seconds to level 1.5% of the Founder homeworld. 21.111 minutes assuming you have 396 specially prepared torpedos ready for each launcher. Given that the vessels do not carry that many per launcher, then you suddenly find your self reduces in firepower dramtically.

30% of a planet? Go back to school. the crust is not even a fraction of a percent of a planet

However we have NEVER seen phasers do that level of damage any other time. At least not to a decent sized world. Remeber size of the world has a lot to do with these figures. If the founders homeworld is the size of say mercury than this is not nearly as impressive.

 

Yes shields that somehow deflect dozens of 12.5 gigatons blasts. Torpedoes are shielded remeber and thus would set off ray shielding and particle shielding. Turn off the shielding and the torpedo explodes on stellar dust. Sorry but what you "know" and what would be the reality of the situation are polar opposites.

Also the globes are NOT shield generators save in the video games (which are not canon) They are sensor and targeting domes. The destruction of the done and the dropping of bridge shields were only related in that the explosion taxed the already straining bridge shield.

 

Actually it's all about evidence.

 

Actually we see plenty of times the shields workd as advertised, witness TPM, AOTC, ROTS, ANH, ESB, and ROTJ and check your bias at the door. Everytime a shield has failed has been becuase it had already been mangled beyond usefulness by long drawn out heavy combat.