Star Wars vs Star Trek

Let me put it simply:

Scott- huge Trek and Wars fan that, because Wars is seriously outgunned, manuvered, and numbered, inflates ALL numbers on the Star Wars side and deflates any argument for Trek based on bullshit. Even when proven mathmatically wrong, he insists he is right. UnBiased studies of the shows, according to him, prove nothing, even though they use study of the scenes to pull out numbers and strength ratings.

In other words, *coughs, then sneezes* Oh... sorry... I'm allergic to bullshit Scott.

Star Wars can NOT use plasma based weaponry. Why? They have no means of transfering plasma... if they generated it at the point of origin, that means each "round" fired would eat away at the sides of the barrel, much like a modern railgun does with it's plasma arc.

A big problem when comparing Star Trek to Star Wars is this: Wars has you coming in and out of battle scenes with NO idea of time. It could have started moments ago, it could have been weeks. There is NO real basis for a comparison. Star Trek, on the other hand, often gives you start-to-finish battles with time lapse covered for by passage of time via character conversation or other. This makes Trek have a stable, honest, and non-bullshit way of measuring powers. They ALSO give a LOT of numbers.

Wars leaves it all up to imagination- not ONE hard figure is given. If it is, I DARE you to name it. Quote the exact statement and give me the EXACT timestamp in the movie or page in the book it came from- I WILL make sure it's valid.

You want a real argument? Fine. I will download electronic versions of ALL the wars books. You want numbers? Great! I'll download all of Trek and start pulling them. It will take me weeks, but I will do it.

Why?

Because I'm bored and honestly have nothing better to do when resting after a few hours at the gym.

Scott, I will prove to you that your logic is flawed... wait... I can't. There is NO logic to your statements.

 

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Greenwave lasers are visible in atmosphere true have you seen one in vacuum? No. Also do they resemble the weapons used in Star Wars? No.

So take your strawman away

 

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Already have several times, if you have a bad memory go back and reread the last 200 pages and don't post stupid shit.

 

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Now i know you are an idiot. If they did research, engineers would not be throwing around treknobabble. The would use clear and concise terms unless talking to another engineer.

 

If you ever put something simply and correctly I might very well have a coronary from surprise.

First of all, Kittamaru, a huge fan of bullshit, has provided not one single fact, study or calculation to prove any of his claims. As witness by page 225 I gave an movie versus show analysis and calculations of Fed shields strength versus ISD fire power. Kittamaru resoprted to this ad hominem attack

Really? Well that explains why you are always coughing and snezing even alone by yourself.

And your proof of this is? Oh right you have none. Thanks

 

Why are they visible in the atmosphere...

dust...

is there dust in space...

yes. Hence navigational deflectors...

Take your strawman away before i burn it

 

Treknobabble is VERY rare in TOS... TECHnobabble is common.
In TNG it is prevelent but the "treknobabble" is still minimal. Plot holes only.
Voy and DS9 it was most used

Enterprise just sucks so meh

 

Proof of lack of plasma conduits- they use copper fucking wires. You can SEE the damned things on the DS2 and in scenes where holes are blown in the ship! Otherwise the plasma would come POURING out of the conduits!

Your "analysis" on page 225 was bullshit. NONE of those numbers were pulled from the show- they were ass-based equations made up by YOU.

We have NO idea of the raw power output of the main core on ANY star wars ship and thus NO idea of what they can do. For all we know, their planets are a base of limestone, which means SuperSoakers would do the job!

Prove to me, with QUOTE AND NUMBERS FROM THE MOVIES OR NOVELS, that the ships have that kind of power output. USE CITATIONS. Why you haven't done so already i can only assume is due to being UNABLE to.

I have CITED PASSAGES FROM THE SERIES and you go and say they are wrong. You apparently think yourself a better judge of "cannon" than the people who WROTE THE FUCKING SHOW!

Get OFF your high horse!

 

And you're "report" on fed shield strength is based on an OLD ship with OLD technology fighting an IMAGINARY being! If you noticed, it ALSO destroyed the old couples home, yet it didn't! Mind manipulation anyone?

 

Oh damned you got me .......not.
Planets in SW have planetaryshields so borbarding has no effect.
I must admit your wright on one thing though. groundattack on Earth is not useless but a waste of time.

 

Oh yeah nuke your own city's. some strategy.
And if u use EMP it will disable all your own weapons to.
I have no dought that the enterprise or voyager's shields can withstand EMP bet not your groundtroups.
Gungan shields can withstand EMP too.
As for airattacks, don't forget Lamda attack vessels. Tie-fighters. X-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, tie-bombers, tie-interceptors, phantom-tie, clonetroopers landing vessels.


Btw I said drop troops off and take off. The damned thing would be on your nose by the time you can react.

And dude stop shouting please, it's annoying.

 

That's the only way St can ever dream of SWpower

 

LUCAS IS STARWARS !!!!!!!!! Everything That he declaires CANON is CANON

If the man says tomorrow that a fart from a rancor can vaporise a human it can. get the picture ?

sorry everyone for the shouting.

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btw Lucas is gonna make a mini-serie in 2009. Let's see then what canon will do to ST.

 

The only thing SW has to deal with is Q. and maybe those Voth things (I allmost nothing about them so I presume them dangerous untill proven otherwise)

 

Vasgo, let me break it down for you, aight mate?

Trek ship:
Immune to EMP (Shield Harmonics shown in TOS when the nuke detonated)
Immune to laser fire (Shield Harmonics again as said in TNG)
PinPoint accuracy if so desired with Phasers (shown when used to drill open pockets of gas as done in TNG) (timing shots and the like)
Very Manuverable (emergency turns via warp engines, full reverse to full warp ahead in under 1.3 seconds as shown in TNG)
Very fast (900 million times the speed of light as stated in voyager)
Transporters (I win button - beam the crews into space)
ALL ships are combat capable thanks to the photon and quantum and micro photon/quantum torpedos.
Shuttlecraft (stupid little shuttles) are well shielded and protected
Energy Based weaponry is primary
Ballistic weaponry primary
Projectile weaponry secondary
Melee weaponry tertiary (yes, there ARE Federation melee weapons)
Power output is enormous, greater than fusion or fission could ever achieve
Multiple redundant systems

Star Wars:
Big big lasers who's output could excede the power absorption of trek's shields (DS and DS2) (that need time to charge by the way and ONLY fire in ONE direction)
HyperSpace must be pre-planned or risk serious consequences
Kinetic based weaponry can be shot down by phaser fire (blasters are kinetic according to scott)

To put the nail in the coffin:

The Force is not a problem. Why? It's a disease- Midochlorians, right? Fine, use the Transporters and remove them! While you have the jedi/sith/whatever in the transporter buffer, simply anihilate the midochlorians. No more force

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The DeathStar or Exequour is not really a problem- something that great a threat would prompt imediate reaction and whole hearted one. Most of the time Star Trek tries to hold back for whatever reason. Against a threat like that, they would use:

A) Covert operations
B) SubSpace Weaponry
C) Trilithium Warheads
D) IsoKinetic Detonators
E) all of the above

to remove said threat before it got within range (and according to the movies, firing range isn't that far on the DeathStar for it's main cannon)

To refute the statement about why orbital bombardment couldn't work- does that mean planetary shields in Wars do NOT protect against physical objects? AWSOME! We'll simply crash other celestial bodies into your planets! Better yet, torpedo bombardment! They have a physical casing, so they'll pass thru the energy barrier.

You catch my drift mate? Scott is SO full of shit that he constantly contradicts himself.

If Star Wars shields are SO good that they can block Matter AND Energy, then WHY could the damn ship simply LAND on the planet? Wouldn't it be... oh, I dont' know... repelled or incinerated by the shield? In Trek you get a nasty ZAP from a simple level 3 force field (First Contact)... imagine hitting a full power high energy shield grid!

FINALLY, there is no "on your nose by the time you react" with Star Wars- their ships are SO slow on screen that the Federation would be prepared LONG before the ship EVER managed to land.

Another idea- DS9's self replicating, cloaked minefields. We'll simply put these around our planets. Since physical objects pass unabated thru your shields (by your own reasoning) they'll simply impact against your hull and detonate combining 500 some odd pounds of matter and antimatter at once.

Better STILL- disruptors! They expand and compress your hull a million times a second. I doubt DuraSteel would be able to stand up to that.

And don't forget Plasma Torpedos ala TOS. They wrap around your ship and IMPLOAD with a force unmatched by any other single conventional weapon in Trek! Think 1/4 the Death Star superlaser imploading upon your ship

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(numbers are NOT run and I am merely making a similie)

I have to go to work, so yeah, I'll continue this later.

Vasago, I'm going to PM you with some cold hard facts from Both sides of the argument. I love Star Wars... I think it was an awsome Triliogy... and it should have stayed that way (not a fan of prequels)

 

Here is PROOF against the whole Neutronium thing:

Star Wars Neutronium

1. Found in veins on a moon. (Cracken's Threat Dossier)
2. A heavy metallic element. (SWS, Rebel Dawn, etc.)
3. When alloyed with the other metals iomite and zersium, can be made into durasteel. (CTD)
4. Durasteel rods can be bent by an angry woman.
("Daala turned and ripped one of the electric-blue glowtorches from the floor behind her. 'Enough!' she shouted. She raised the durasteel staff high and smashed it down upon the tabletop. The glowcrystal exploded into shards with crackling blue sparks, and transparent fragments flew in all directions. She hammered the rod down again and again, denting the table, bending the staff, and fragmenting the end." (Darksaber, p. 133)

Star Trek Neutronium

1. Found in neutron stars, and decays outside of that environment. ("Evolution")
2. Can be "alloyed" with carbon, serving as the ultra-strong material of the Dyson Sphere ("Relics")
3. Can be crafted into a very roughly conical object, impervious to weapons, with a structure capable of withstanding 97.835 megaton impulse reactor explosions. ("The Doomsday Machine")
4. Can be crafted into a building by the Iconians which remain standing for ~200,000 years, with no apparent damage. ("To the Death")
5. The Dominion has managed to create at least two doors from it, impervious to all weapons.
6. Can be crafted into not-so-rough spacecraft (curiously, also roughly conical, though I doubt that's an important point). ("Think Tank")
7. The surface stratum of an artificial asteroid was "some sort of neutronium alloy". ("The Phage")

 

Fortunately, a perfectly viable explanation is already in play, thanks to the technologies we have seen in the Star Trek universe. We know, for example, that shields operate due to some sort of graviton-based spatial distortion. This is demonstrated by La Forge's screen in Generations. We know also that the Federation has the ability to utilize gravitons in precise applications, such as Geordi's "heavy graviton beam" discussed (but not implemented) in "Best of Both Worlds". And, naturally, there were inertial dampening systems in place on spacecraft as early as 2063, with artificial gravity definitely observed as early as 2151.

More to the point as well

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How do these facts help?

1. Some sort of neutronium containment system would be required to maintain (and/or create) neutronium outside its natural environment, and this could be a very strong artificial gravitational field.
2. This field must be nullified beyond a certain point (at least in the case of starship interiors, doors, and structures which, as observed, do not cause people to fly into them and turn to chunky salsa, and worse).
3. So far, the only examples of neutronium use have been from more technologically advanced races than the Federation, such as the Iconians (creators of galaxy-crossing stargates) and the builders of the Dyson Sphere.

It is, therefore, not a leap to posit that the required technologies for neutronium use are seen in their infancy in the Federation, but that these technologies have been well-developed by certain races, cultures, or groups, to the point that neutronium becomes a viable material for use in various applications.

 

Further, when the hell did compressed neutrons become a metallic element? You can look all day on the periodic table and not find a metallic element called neutronium, or sharing any of the characteristics of neutronium, for the simple reason that every metallic (or even non-metallic) element, by default, has protons and electrons, whereas real neutronium doesn't!

Finally, why would the Imperial Fleet from TESB be worried about the asteroids? If they had neutronium hulls (not to mention hull strengths a la the Ep2ICS), being nervous in the asteroid field would be like an M1A1 Abrams tank being nervous about going out in the rain.


More ammo to kill Scott with... is he dead yet?

 

Oh, and owing to Star Wars' poor technology, this is a direct quote from the SCRIPT for A New Hope

The script for ANH refers to the Death Star's turbolasers with the following peculiar statements:

"Alarm sirens scream as soldiers scramble to large turbo-powered laser gun emplacements. Electronic drivers rotate the huge guns into position as crew adjust their targeting devices."

"Smoke belches from the giant laser guns as they wind up their turbine generators to create sufficient power. The crew rushes about preparing for another blast. Even the troopers head gear is not adequate to protect them from the overwhelming noise of the monstrous weapon. One trooper bangs his helmet with his hand in an attempt to stop the ringing."


Wait... turbine... turbine generators? So they are STEAM or WATER powered??? WHAT?