Star Wars vs Star Trek

Obviously you have no clue how to properly work a gonpowder explosion. With just a little manipulation and effort I can even make one that is in rough shapes, and explosions at the edge of an explosion and a chain event. I'm not even an expert in pyrotechnics nor do I have acessed sophisticated equipment. As I said I could work one to be 600 meters, so blast radius is not a proper indication of power if the weapon is known for much less destructive potential.

The one in Skin of Evil took out a Shuttle with it's mini warp core. That explains the one seen in Skin of Evil. In The Die is Cast the romulans were not using photon torpedoes, but rather Plasma torps and the Cardassians were using Photon Torp equivalents and for both weapons you can be certain they removed guidance and put in the heaviest warhead possible and even thenusing all weapons and thirty plus ships (which Paramount and common sense supports) to do any signicant damage to the planet which given the revelations of the episode in question is debatable they even did that. Otherwise there are too many instances where a Torpedo has been used against targets and not did anything impressive. Wrath of Kahn, Search for Spock, Final Frontier, Undiscovered Country, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and a myriad of episodes too numerous to name. In fact the only times a Photon Torpedo has been shown to be a even a small weapon of mass destruction is when attacking large stationary targets where they have had time to prepare torpedoes for much larger warheads.

A weapon like that is of course respectable, however respectable in that terms means it is not unlike a Class 4 thermal Detonator available on the black market in sums that would today be making to buying a few illegal guns. You are not going to see Star Trek compete with a 4 kiloton hand grenade.

All the ones you see be destroyed are at least 50% larger. In fact in one of the chase scenes off to side you see an asteroid that must be at least 4 or five times the lenght of the Falcon that must have been destroyed or it would have impacted the pursuing Star Destroyer. Novelization and Radio drama also claims 100 meter, 200 meter and even larger asteroids vaporized in one shot. Since the movie does not dispute this, it is canon.

 

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Yes TWSCOTT you can quote the canon policy from here to the moon but we've already been told by the people that matter that CANON is only for the purpose of continuity of the story.

If you want to know what really happen in absolutes there is no substitute to the film.

So we're completely justified with leaving out anything that conflicts or is ommited by the films.

 

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Star Wars hands down, reasons are

1) I find your lack of faith disturbing.
2) Commence Primary Ignition.
3) You don't know the power of the Dark Side.
4) Shield will no prevent any Sith/Jedi from chocking anyone to death.

 

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roflmao, that is why every great Sith lord is dead.....lol

 

I am sorry Scott, but the movies (The ORIGIONAL Trilogy) are the only Star Wars sources I consider cannon because Lucas himself had a hand in writing them. The writers of the books basicly had free creative license to do as the please, partially because what is impressive on screen is not as impressive on a page of a book.

In the same way, after Roddenbury passed, Star Trek started to have continuity issues. A good example is Enterprise- Piece of SHIT. It totally ruined the time line.

Going ORIGINAL CANNON to true Star Trek cannon, Star Trek would win. I don't care to be honest how much they up-played things in the new movies or in books. I don't consider Star Trek books to be any more cannon than Star Wars books. If you want to play it that way, then read Star Trek: Titan series. Or even Shattered Sword. Some of the things they do there... just... no. It would not happen. A good example is how an Intrepid class took on 3 Warbirds in Shattered Sword, destroying 2 of them and severely damaging the third. An intrepid would never be able to do that alone. Period.

Likewise, in Clone Wars, Grevious utterly raped all the jedi he came across- then Mace Windu was like NO! BAD! *crushes chest*

Now Mace Windu is dead and Greivous got owned because he completely SUCKED in Episode 2... where was all his stuff from Clone Wars? *shrugs*

So yeah, stick to real cannon mates. For simplicities sake.

Perhaps the best reason Star Trek would win? It's happening. In real life.

Anti-matter- Real
Deuterium - Real
Tritanium - possible
Warp Drive - possible
Impulse Drive - Real (Impulse merely means action-reaction)
Phasers - possible
Photon torps (Matter-antimatter reaction) Possible
Starbases - real
shields - real
Dilithium - fake
All ships have decent defenses - makes logical sense
Alien races - possible, but not probable

Star Wars-
Force - fake
HyperDrive - no way in hell (I highly doubt a ship can sustain the forces encounted by entering an artificial, unstable wormhole)
Very weak, no shields ships used for primary combat - who the hell had brain damage?
Alien races - dear GOD I hope not
Totalitarian government who rules by fear - would be overthrown by the rest of the world much less universe
Lasers - real
Ion Drive - real, but impractical
Duranium, Courscca Gems, ect - say what?

Yeah... Star Trek is far more likely to actually happen than Star Wars.

 

Well unfortunately for you, your opinion of this matter and 50 cents will buy you two gumballs. Lucas approved the EU as canon where it does not dispute his movies thus it is canon. There is no argument.

 

Oh god another thundering moron without any sense at all.
Anti-matter- Real but takes more enrgy to create than we gain form the Matter -Antimater reaction
Deuterium - Real
Tritanium - Not in the slightest it calls for minerals and elements that don't even exist
Warp Drive - Not even a slight bit possible. Take apart the rules of space in front of you and put it back together behind you? Oh bullshit on this one.
Impulse Drive - Real (Impulse merely means action-reaction) just another name for Ion engine.
Phasers - Not even slightly possible calls for a fictional partical to have chain reaction type effect with matter.
Photon torps (Matter-antimatter reaction) Possible
Starbases - real
shields - real
Dilithium - Actually Dilithium is a real material however it is not likely to be used in an M-AM reactor
All ships have decent defenses - Unfortunatly not true of the genre.
Alien races - completely impossible, There is no way deifferent worlds would evolve species that could interbreed, even with the hackneyed reason they came up with. That many billions years apart would make too many genetic difference.

Star Wars-
Force - Admittedly sketchy but possible Telepathic and Telekinetic abilities.
HyperDrive - Admittedly sketch buyt no less likely than taking apart space in front of a travelling ship.
Very weak, no shields ships used for primary combat - Where do you see that? Oh right you forgot that SW vessels do have shields, but are also built to take punishment for when they eventually get worn down.
Alien races - Much more realistic than Star Trek. At least they are different species and look like they evolved under different ecologies.
Totalitarian government who rules by fear - Actually the Empire treated the human citizen of the core worlds quite well. Since those densely populated and heavily advanced worlds backed the Emporer those of slightly less power would toe the line. And you'll note his reign laster only 23 years.
Lasers - real
Ion Drive - real, just a another term for impulse drive
Duranium, Courscca Gems, ect - What you expect them to name exotic material silly names like Tritanium?

The point is for the conflict ahead it is ALL REAL. You can't call it into question becuase it does not exist in real life. To do that is to invalidate Star trek completely and since SW is from another Galxy we would have to explore them all before we invalidate them.

 

Not to You who thinks overly much of his own opinion. But Lucas only approved the EU in events, continity...As I'll continue to reiterate and as I know you'll continue to deny...or ignore because you can't acknowledge the truth...

It's not absolute...and absolute is absolute which means that the EU and the rest that you consider sacred is only apparent. and that's all that it was meant to be. It was only meant to look like star wars.

It was only meant to sound and read like Star Wars but it's not and he's said so strictly in person and through representative.

No one faults you for looking at Star Wars the way you do. It is apparent that there are two ways to look at it...I just choose to see the absolute

For the story I'll write I'll incorporate the continuity of the EU in connection to Star Wars but the fire power which is what this debate is about will remain to large degree absolute...because that's the only way that's fair.

 

Sorry scott, you just lost all credibility...

why?

1) You said I was a thundering moron, then pretty much agreed with me. *confused*

2) Warp Drive is possible in theory - the idea of bending space and time is not new at all and the idea of using a powerful electro-magnetic field to alter the apparent mass of something is not in the slightest new.

AntiMatter, when combined with it's component matter in a 1-1 ratio, results in perfect destruction of the two physical particles, giving 100% energy release. Conservation of Energy / Mass mate. The only reason it's so hard to make right now is because it's such a new thing to create. Also, look at Dark Matter and Negative Energy- explain THAT would ya?

Many of the particles used in PHASERS could very well exist and we have no way to detect them yet. Look at Quarks, Strange Quarks, Neutrinos, and other fun little things. They were discovered and proven in the last what, five years?

Tritanium - I said it was possible. it is thru matter reconstruction
As for star wars ships all having shields- I do believe TIE fighters are UNSHIELDED. Most TIE's are... and they seem to be the backbone of the imperial arsenal in space fights. All Combat Design ships have shields of some sort in Star Trek, and many ships not designed for combat (like shuttles) still have shields.

And what do you mean by the Star Wars EU? What the hell is that? If you mean book series, the fact that random people who had no affiliation to Lucas and the studio... *shrug* Waaaay too much of a chance for random BS mate.

3) You do not HESITATE to resort to insults and other forms of derivative speech to prove your point... that is quite childish if I do say so myself.

 

Really? Maybe from the peanut gallery inside your own head.

Even broken clocks are right twice a day, doesn't mean you should trust them.

Okay Star trek warp doesn't bend space. It alters the rules of the universe. In effect creating a pocket dimension inside our own. It's the only option that makes sense given the effect. Using a warp field ot lighten an object would not help with attaining or exceeding light speed. No mater how little your apprant mass it still approaches infinity the closer you get the speed of light. Thus requiring infinite energy. Now one could argue that the warp field reduces the effective mass to zero, but even there you need infinitely more energy to reduce infinitely more mass.

I don't have to explain Dark Matter or Negative energy. However Anitmatter is so ridiculously hard to make it is pathetic. It takes millions of times more energy to create than we get out of it, even if our collection methods were perfect. See, the seocnd problem is that while the reaction is 100% energy the methods of gathering energy from that release are not going to be nearly as efficent.

Five years? Are you brain dead. Pictures of Quarks were used in the Steve Martin movie Roxanne. We have known about quarks, strange quarks, Neutrinos, photons, Alpha particles, Beta Particles, Tachyons, and umpteen thousand different sub attomic particles. The particles is not what gets me it is that some how the Nadion produces an effect that most chemists and physicist would be shaking their head at.

Normal TIE fighters do not have Ray Shields, but still armored. They also still have particle shields as all craft have those. Furthermore TIE's are not the backbone of the Imperial Navy, Star Destroyers are, duh.

This is where you ignorance hits alltime high. To write a Star Wars novel you are affliated with Lucasfilm. EU means Expanded Universe and it is very much canon as lon as it does not directly dispute the movies.

Would you prefer I use baby talk? I mean it is about the level of 90% of the shit you spew.

 

*smiles* No, but I would prefer you be a bit more... shall I say human? Your actions mimick those of a young teenager who has just had a favorite toy taken away- pathetic. Act your age, speak your age. If you can't prove your point without being blatently insulting, then you will find yourself in some very precarious positions in the world.

In one of the first Wars movies, someone mentioned it only took one or two hits to down a TIE because they were UNSHIELDED. So right there, Cannon. period.

EU eh? You want dispute? Compare word for word the books to the movies and try to say the books don't dispute them all over the place. For gods sake, in some books Luke is almost sith-like! Yet in others he refused to fight to defend himself. What's wrong with that?

And, once more, I bring up the point that the ONLY good force-wielders left at the end of Star Wars the movies was Luke, to a lesser extent Leiah (sp?) and Mara. Mara and Luke got it on and had kids. Nice. Han and Leiah did the dirty and now have semi-competent force wielding children. That makes sense too. But where the HELL did the millions of dark jedi, sith, force-capable Yuh'zunvong, the Nightsisters, ect come from? Did someone just say "OOOH OH OH OH! We need more enemies?" C'mon man!

 

Han in A New Hope: " It looks like an Imperial cruiser. Our passengers must be hotter than I thought. Try and hold them off. Angle the deflector shieldwhile I make the calculations for the jump to light speed."

Dodonna, talking about the Death Star: “The battle station is heavily shielded and carries firepower greater than half the star fleet… Only a precise hit will set up a chain reaction. The shaft is ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes.”

ThreePO in ESB: "Sir, we just lost the main rear deflector shield. One more
direct hit on the back quarter and we're done for."

Captain Needa, aboard the Star Destroyer Avenger in ESB: "They're moving to attack position. Shields up!"

Some crewman on a Star Destroyer during the battle around Endor: "Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shield."

Seriously now…

 

thtat proves that Star WArs shields aren't impenetrable in movie after movie GL sets up a premise that ships shields are angle able not expandable and have gaps. NUMEROUS occasions...we know this to be true of fighter shields.

 

I believe he was talking about the TIE fighters not having sheilds.....

 

No one ever claimed that SW shields were impenetrable to SW weapons. SW ship have multiple shield generators that each cover a specific part of the ship. Clearly the crew can divert extra power to some specific generators if they expect to be shot at from some directions but not others. From an efficiency standpoint this gives them an edge over ST shields, which seem to be either "up" or "down" everywhere. A SW ship could have part of its shield knocked down but still maintain coverage over other parts of the ship.

 

He said "ships used for primary combat," which would be star destroyers and other heavy capital ships. The rebels only used fighters to attack the death stars because 1)it was a gimcky attack that the Imperials weren't expecting and 2)they needed ships small enough to fly into the structure of the second death star.

 

you must not know that trek has sheld arcs. They're not up or down every where.

However what I' m saying is that Star WArs ships have gaps in the shield...large enough for fighters to fly through or stray shots to penetrate or to bleed damge.

Trek has a complete coverying. damage on bleeds through on weaker shield levels

Even the Star WArs STar Trek online novel show this to be true with their death star....The showed they could move the shield arcs but they're were still gaps between the shield

 

Yep, he was talking TIE's....

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Oh, I don't have to be insulting and have already proven my points in the past being rather civil. However when thundering morons post bullshit and even when they are called on it do not back down then i throw in a few potshots. I consider it a service to humanity. The ones that are salvagable will step back educate themselves, if even only out of sheer spite and then become productive members of society. Others ,like you, will whine complain and make feeble attempts to make your inane idiocy look more credible.

No one said that. Not in any of the movies. However there are several types of shielding. Particle Shields and Ray shields. Particle shielding exists for the purpose of handling object collision and explosive devices. Ray shielding or Defelctor shields are to deal with offsetting energy weapons.

In some of the book he was Sith as he had turned to the Dark side. That doesn't dispute the movies as it happened after. In others he had turned back to the light and in some cases a Jedi does not fight. The force is only for Knowledge and defense, according to Jedi code. this does not dispute movies.

If you read you will discover. Did you think Yoda and Obi-wan were the only ones to escape the Purge? Hell they were changing the code in the temple becuase they knew there would be other stragglers. As for other force users, the Emperor had several hundred working for him doing things from ferreting out Force Sensitives to hunting them. Not to mention that Palpatine only hunted down the Jedi, not other traditions of Force Weilders. In fact he left the Witchs of Dathomir alone entirely. None of this contradicts movie as even when Yoda was dying he would have told Luke that the other Jedi were gone just in case he failed.

 

Actually, it is true that the TIEs have no shielding. At least the TIE/Ln fighters and TIE Bombers shown directly in the movies, and the TIE Interceptors.
However, the TIE Defenders, and the TIE Avenger fighters had shielding, as did Lord Vader's TIE Advanced and the TIE Phantom.