Star Wars vs Star Trek

Uranium is NOT the densest thing known......it is extremely dense, but not densest. Which isotope of Uranium are you talking about as well?

It also depend on the molecular structure, not just the structure and weight.

 

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I don't know much about hypermatter, so I can't pronounce a statement.

 

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I didn't say densest, I said one of the densest. Substitute some thing else if you like. Nothing is much more dense though, definitely not 62x as dense. Unless your talking about neutron matter from a neutron star or something. Then it would too hard to move and use effectively.

Also, the density I used is the average of the isotopes according to their relative abundance.

Also, HI shogun.

 

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Neutron star stuff weighs about 5.9×10^17 kg/m3. This would do the trick for size. However, good luck moving it around. It would have to burn too much energy to move it to make it effective.

 

At that density, a spec the size a hydrogen atom would weigh 17.7 grams.

 

Well, not to mention the fact that Neutron Star material becomes highly unstable and begins to, literally, fall apart once taken out of the star itself (since the gravity is then, you know, gone)

 

Actually this section of the ICS is conflicting with Canon. Canon fact we see the Death Star use a directed energy weapon to detonate a planet. The MINIMUM power needed to defeat gravitational binding energy is easily calculatable by our mathmatics. Thus we know what the daily output of the Original Death Star must have been in order for the movie to be correct and for the movie to be correct, the ICS is wrong in that area.

This is one of the few times the Movies does completely trump lower canon.

 

Not just that time, but many others as well... such as the tanks on naboo, for example.

 

ROFLMAO. Ok, so the calculations that have been done on this taking only the gravitational binding energy in account (completely ignoring the fact that the heat within the planet gives it huge amounts of outward pressure already, they also don't account for materials or Vaporization pressure, these things would lower the amount of energy needed) they come up with 2.3 × 10^32 watt seconds or about 6.8 DAYS of the suns output.

George1, how is this 8000 YEARS?

So this means that the death star is 6857.18 times larger than the about of hypermatter required. Making this much more realistic. I should have looked up the numbers myself instead of listening to George1, I apologize to the rest of the forum for this folly.

Still, good luck hitting the Enterpise with it before it beams a photon torpedo down your throat!

 

However, in thinking on it further it could not have been anything like a phaser. Even if you could get a phaser to destroy the bonds between every molecule on the planet at the same time it just would POOF into dust. It would stay the same size since its gravity would not change and the energy stored in the chemical bonds would not be enough to overcome gravity. Some chuncks may fly out to do the blast being asemetrical, but most of the mass of the planet would stay in the same place.

 

Ah okay, just to make sure

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. Yeah, most superheavy atoms have ridiculously short half-lives.

Hello.

 

Perhaps the energy generation is triggered during construction, and at the shipyard before it is self-sustaining?

 

First of all, all the supposed energy your talking about doesn't help at all when it comes to defeating gravitational binding energy. In fact vaporization thresholds, shattering energy, and so on add to the energy requirements. Not to mention that gravitational binding energy is only the energy needed to mullify gravity for a second. To actually detonate a plate like Alderaan you would need many times this level of power.

Also, remember in all cases where the ICS makes the movie impossible the ICS is wrong. Meaning, their numbers for the Main Reactor of the Death Star must be incorrect. Or perhaps Hypermatter renews itself as part of it's reaction (a much more daunting theory)


Also, the Enterprise would find it impossible to beam a Phton Torpedo onto the Death Star due to 3 limiting factoers. First is sensor jamming, second particle shielding that all SW vessels have and finally the extremely heavy metals used in constructio of the Death Star.

 

You will, of course, provide proof that:

A) the Empire uses sensor jamming
B) Imperial Sensor Jamming would affect LADAR/Gravimetric/Magnometric/host of other types of sensors (including Subspace)
C) Particle shielding would stop a transporter (exotic particle as far as the shield is concerned)
D) the "heavy metals" would stop a transporter (after all, ablative armor, borg hulls, et al didn't give them any issues...)
E) you aren't just talkin out your ass again (ergo, provide some evidence at all)

 

A) Novelization of the Battle of Yavin, Battle of Hoth, and Battle of Endor.
b) Star Trek Sensors have always been persnickety and are heavily affected by even ambient planetary radiation.
c) It has been made quite clear by Star Trek that unless you know the exact frequency of a modulating shield you cannot beam through it short of truly herculena and dangerous means, Even then you'd need the complete layout of your target area.
D) There are numerous episodes where Heavy Metal have negated transporters. Hell in some episodes plain old grantie disrupted transporters. Almost comparing 40mm ablative armor to 3 meter thinck Star Destroyer hull and 10 meter thick Death Star armor belt is laugahble at best. As for borg hull, they are paper thin anyways as borgs rely of shields and numbers to survive.
E) And actual Star Trek enthusiast would have completely agreed with my reasoning. Just becuase you love a show does not mean you ignore it's weaknesses.

 

I have explained how the Tanks on Naboo do not truly trump the ICS as you will note the Shields were not up on the one craft they managed to shoot down. Also note that in tank had scored an excelnt shot. that cuased the craft to spin out of control and crash. It did not blow it up through sheer firepower as you have implied.

 

Never seen in the movies, and can be countered with the fact that they never seem to have any issues with targeting (including fighters, which should be highly susceptible to ECM from larger, more powerful ships)

Hardly so - the only "heavily affected" bit seems to be when hiding behind the planet (makes sense), especially considering ISD's couldn't find the Falcon on the back of another ISD (despite it sticking out like a sore thumb) and that "hiding" for the falcon entailed landing inside an asteroid (which would have a much, much smaller signature than a planet)

This would be true... if they were beaming people. Doesn't matter if your containment vessel fails when beaming over a torpedo full of anti-matter. Long as it arrives somewhere within the target, *BOOM BABEH*

Borg don't have shields you ninny... they have energy fields in TNG that disrupt sensor and transporter function, but not shields watch the episodes again, ffs). Also, you are ASSuming that the thickness of a material matters... look at modern day SSN reactors, and you'll note that the reactor shielding has gotten much, much thinner despite having higher output reactors... indicative of better materials.

*chuckles* Except these "weaknesses" you claim are hardly a weakness... half of them don't even exist outside your own delusional mind, as Saquist, myself, and a half dozen others have shown you time and again... yet you continue to crawl back here with the same old tired arguments, hoping some poor newcomer might be stupid enough to fall for your tricks...

Sorry, but repeating a defeated argument doesn't make it any less wrong Scott.

 

It doesn't matter if the shields were up or not... the fact that the round, which didn't so much as scorch the ground (unless you wish to imply the round that missed was "dialed down"...) was enough to even be NOTICED by a STARFIGHTER... well, that's just downright pathetic.

I'd be better off shooting 20mm AAA guns at it for all the power behind that 'tank' round...

 

A) Ample proof that you are an absolute liar is in Return of the Jedi, At the Battle of Endor

Lando: We've got to be able to get a reading on the shield whether it is up or down.
Nien numb (Native language)
Lando: Jamming us? How are they Jamming us if the they don't know we're coming...

So you will of course retract your statement and defer to the movie. Failure to do so forfeits your entire position.


B) We have explained agains and again why scanning in the field was sub optimal at best. The ENTIRE asterpoid belt was made of Asteroids that were 20% to 50% made of the same materials as the hulls of starships. It's like using a MAD to find a croswbar in a pile of iron ore.


C) Actually it is more important when transporting Antimatter as untill it is formed on the other side loss of caontinment is more likely to happen on your ship. Also The one time precision beaming is not used is when moving bulk product that do not require the precicision that organics and electronics would.

D) first of all you are again a liar. Borgs do in fact have shields, hell even their individual drones have shelds. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg_cube
Second radiation shielding material is different than ARMOR. It serves a different function. I would note that the thining od shielding on SSN has been mostly due to reactor redesigns and extensive testing. No new materials have entered the field.

e) They are present in the canon episodes and movies of your chosen genre. Just becuase you are too blind and ignorant to see them does not mean they are not there.

By the way, you can fix your ignorance. I have every bit of faith that given time and effort on your part you can prove the intelligence that I assume you have.

 

Fist of all, we have explained why form a distance you would not totice what kind of damage a Tank Laser canon would do to the ground. It's the same as if you shot off a 120 APDSFSDU shell and hit only ground. There would be a small but deep hole.

Second, the weapon might have been dield down for firing more rapidly against the unarmroed and unshielded gungan. Remeber the tanks on the outside were firing more slowly at the shield when it was up but when the shield dropped those cannons were going 4 and 5 times as fast.

Third: Normally a single 20mm round would do nothing more than inconvience the maintenance crew of an F-14. However get it in the right place and suddenly the pilot has to ditch his now completely screwed fighter.


If these are not concepts you can grasp perhaps you should read up on them. I do have every confidence that you can learn enough to be a credible debator.