Star Trek, Star Wars and the CGU versus Orion's Arm...

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by MJ12 Commando, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    ...yep. All three are allied against Orion's Arm and their AI Gods.

    ST only has the Feds, Klingons, Rommies, Borg, and Dominion.

    SW has the Rebels and GE only circa RoTJ.

    And the CGU, whenever Hapsburg feels like it.

    Of course, to make this somewhat interesting, wormholes connect the four galaxies.

    Can the three bring down gods? Or will the superior intellect of the AI Gods subvert them all?
     
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  3. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    A.I Gods + crazy OA verse= the others mofos are dead. That is, unless, the three allied 'verses simply opt to use heavy-ass superweapons...and even then...it'll look nasty.
    The only real problem that OAverse has is that they don't have ftl, right? Or have they changed that since?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2005
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  5. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    What is so special about Orion's Arm AI "Gods"? And from what I know, they have an empire which is only like...3000 light years across. That's Star Trekian levels of pathetic smallness in the SciFi realm.
     
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  7. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    The fact that they have thousands of ships which are capable of shredding the crust of the world instantly, or turning even small asteroids into fleet-killing kinetic energy weapons.

    The fact that they're so massively smarter than anyone else.

    The fact that they dwell inside suns just to get enough energy to keep doing their computations.

    The fact that ther technology is so over-the-top it is impossible for a human to understand, reproduce, or even do more than theorize about it.

    Size matters not. Every joule of energy OA puts out is massively more efficiently used than every joule the Empire can put out.

    And also, they've colonized a bit denser than SW.
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    A joule can only do so much, no matter how smart you are or efficent your technology. There is always some loss.
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Mj12 Commando:

    Give me some resources on these?

    Jedi can see the future. At the very least, prescient ability may well mitigate the potential for Orion Arm's AI Gods to employ their super intelligence on the same level of functioning.

    The Deathstar I made more energy in one day than the sun makes in 3,000 years. It is not very impressive to have to use a sun to power itself.

    What is so complicated about it?

    How so? In what way do they use it more efficiently?

    Half of all the stars in the SW galaxy have colonization of some sort. In the last war with the Vong, over 346 trillion sentients died.
     
  10. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    Dark Angels. They can "tear apart the crust of a world", "declerate RKKS (high-power kinetic impact munitions) into harmlessness", and spray lots of OA sub-nano weapons. Things, I must note, that little in SW can stop. Shields are nice, but they die when your sun goes OMGWTFNOVA. In addition to that, they have enough control to quite accurately throw your crew around the ship, or even better, throw your ship components around the ship. They also have ten centimeter spheres of death which mass millions of tons and can ram ships with rather extreme kinetic energy.

    Not really. Because an AI God can literally plan the most optimal series of actions for its side out so that no matter what the other side does, they're at a disadvantage. And precog is already somewhat inaccurate, as Palpatine showed, and he was a powerful Sith.

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    ...except they use suns to power themselves in matter/antimatter conversion, especially for their largest weapons. The supernova bombs they have convert a third of a sun's mass into energy, creating a supernova which is dangerous for *MULTIPLE LIGHTYEARS*. The Deathstar has nowhere near that effect, plus they probably have far more of the supernova bombs, which are in turn far stealthier (100% EM ABSORPTION FOR THE WIN!) and far smaller and hence far easier to use. They also can do interesting things such as turn planets into antimatter bombs. And besides, they have AI circuitry capable of surviving inside the core of a star. The Empire's ships don't jump into the middle of stars just for the heck of it, do they now? The Death Star, also, would be fairly unimpressive in OA God-terms, as they could have, in theory, several dozen GodHammers, which are basically really really powerful wormhole-based weapons. Harnessing pulsars and magnetars, which are rather significantly more powerful. OA God *scout fleets* can turn a planet into nothing more than thin smears of dust within days.

    Subnanotech. Spacetime manipulation on a gross scale. In most cases, the devices are in a state of eternal instability and without microsecond-to-microsecond maintenance become rather explosive.

    ...Because their weapons are infinitely more precise and tend to use the opponent against itself, what with conversion bombs, so on and so forth.

    And that was a major war which caused a rather large percentage of deaths in the SW galaxy, IIRC. OA already has about 200 or so trillion sentients and more in other galaxies. But that doesn't matter, what with a few million superduperAIs running around, all of which are orders of magnitude smarter than anything SW, ST, or the CGU has.
     
  11. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Except possibly Unit 415 (improved version of U414).
    But that's iffy...very iffy. His weaponry is certainly powerful enough to put the hurt on a lotta things.
     
  12. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    MJ12 COmmando:

    How high-power kinetic impact are we speaking of? What scale are we speaking of "sub-nano"? Moreover, Star Wars can cause any star to go supernova with the SUn Crusher, even those without the mass to normally do so. This sun crusher can reach anywhere in hyperspace. Pair this with its indestructibility - litterally, it is invulernable - and it alone could defeat the entire Orion's Arm military. This also does not take into consideration the Galaxy Gun which can simply launch planet-destroying missiles thorugh hyperspace to any planet from hundreds of thousands of light years away, and Centrepoint Station which can move/create black holes (not small ones, but regular sized ones), and move planets/stars through hyperspace and real space.

    What control do they have that can make ships be thrown around? Moreover, neutronium is in use by Star Wars, too. Which I assume your "spheres of death" are made of.

    And the Jedi can predict such and act accordingly. In a short-story I was just recently reading, entitled "Ylesia", Jacen Solo predicts the real-space appearance of a Vong fleet from hyperspace before they arrive, therefore allowing the New Republic Fleet to saturate the area with proton torpedos and shadow-bombs and wreck, in essence, the entire fleet as soon as they got there.

    Also, the prescient's accuracy was only impacted by the Dark Side, not by regular things. Palpatine was basically a Dark Side God and was able to weave such lines of deception - bolstered by the Force - so as to even shroud the Jedi. I doubt A.I. Gods - with no connection to the Force - can do as such, specifically as A.I. will act on an extremely logical level of thought.

    Matter/anti-matter conversion? 20th century technology. Moreover, Star Wars has the same technology of super-nova induction and can, quite easily, outrun any supernova so long as they can reach hyperspace in time. Hyperspace, as I hope you are aware, can be as fast as 50,000,000 times the speed of light. It'd probably take less than a minute to clear the danger area of a super nova, if even that long, for even the slowest supernova enabled ships belonging to civilians or some nonsense. Moreover, the Empire does have a ship - the Sun Crusher - which was to survive in the core of a Star perpetually, but instead was sucked into the Maw.

    Might you give me some resources on these Godhammers of which you speak?

    -Within days-? A single Star Destroyer can completely turn the crust of a planet into molten slag in -three hours-. The Empire has 25,000 of them.

    Might you give some resources? I'm intrigued.

    Conversion bombs ought to be pretty easy to construct, if what you speak of is an anti-matter weapon which uses part of the mass of the opponent ship to be included in the explosion. Considering that is simply akin to lobbing anti-matter at something, this would be easily replicatable - but utterly unneeded - for SW to do. SW has had 200,000 years of civilization to develop weapons of immense power.

    According to the website I saw, they said the OA Empire was 3,000 lightyears or so across. Where are you getting this information?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2005
  13. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    When the AI Gods use them, planet cracking impacts, easily. As in twenty of them causes a planet to turn into rather interesting patterns of tiny asteroids flying around rapidly. DAs stop hundreds of them. And in a minor skirmish between gods, they use thousands. Just to open up an assault. Furthermore, the Sun Crusher has internal components, and discrete internal components are bad to have when the Dark Angels are on the loose. Finally, Centerpoint Station isn't particularly impressive in OA. Dark Angels can always do the same thing, as in create rather nasty black holes. And Centerpoint is only one thing, OA has lots and lots of Dark Angels (which aren't even the be-all and end-all of AI God weapons!)

    Not neutronium on the same scale that OA uses it on. SW neutronium is basically just added mass for heat sinking. OA neutronium can be used as a building material. Furthermore, Dark Angels are precise enough to lift a single person into orbit or manipulate pebbles, and have some serious raw power behind their halo, which means that there's a lot of imaginative possibilities that leave SW ships vulnerable.

    Prediction doesn't do anything if any possible course of action will be rather fatal. And I was more thinking how Palpatine's predictions kinda failed when he failed to predict his own death.

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    In other news, an AI God plans to be outpredicted, and is very good at outplanning the enemy.

    No, they don't. A standard supernova puts out quite a bit of energy, enough to fry an entire star system and endanger anything within a fairly large distance. This is a weapon of mass destruction which threatens a large area throughout all the galaxy. Furthermore, ships don't matter. By far, SW stuff is based on planets, which are in star systems, which can be hit by the star-sized conversion bombs.

    They use a excessively large neutron star or pulser and turn it into a laser. Makes the DS look like a wet fart. 20,000 to 100,000 times the power of a star, and the DS is only 3,000 times the power of a star. And it's delivered by a fairly tiny flying wormhole which is invulnerable to anything short of massive spacetime distortion weaponry. And I mean invulnerable. You could hit it directly with the Death Star and it wouldn't do anything, the beam being diffused when it goes out the 'feed' end and hitting things which aren't affected by massive energy gradients anyways.

    ...no, they turned the planet into little but ash in two days. As in pounded it into tiny bits and pieces The only thing that can approach that feat is the DS. And this was a minor AI God which didn't have the ability to field Dark Angels, and a fairly minor fleet from it. Dark Angels have more power than it has. Given the DS has a recharge time in the hours, those ships don't have that much less firepower than it does, plus they're probably better at focusing it on a ship-size target than the DS is.

    The Bias Drive, one of their drive systems, is a complete spacetime instability and any fault in the drive system tends to cause the ship to turn into either: 1. A rather extreme explosion as the entire ship becomes energy, or
    2. A pocket universe.

    The drive is reliable enough for the OA forces to use it on combat starships due to AI management. However, if SW tried to mount it, any ship they tested it on would explode rather messily. And that's not counting the anti-reverse-engineering virii you might find on a OA ship. If someone tries reverse engineering, it's quite possible that they cause the entire planet to be taken over in a matter of days by an AI that doesn't particularly like them and is smarter than they are.

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    ...no, a conversion bomb. Every second one of your subatomic particles become antimatter simultaneously. You turn into a 100% efficient antimatter explosion, and given ISDs mass millions of tons or so, IIRC, that's a lot of FWACKOOM. SW has 200,000 years of civilization, but they've become fairly stagnant. And in relative terms, given the amount of speed acceleration and the AI Gods, OA's relative civilization is easily going to have hundreds to thousands to millions of times of R&D over SW. Furthermore, although hypermatter is more efficient than antimatter as a fuel source, it isn't as easy to acquire.

    I believe the main site says it's 5000 LY across, plus more aliens, some of which are capable of doing things like compacting a small galaxy into a 10 LY ship.

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  14. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    MJ12 Commando:

    20 of them to rip a planet apart? Okay. Thanks for the nice power comparison. Although a Deathstar II can destroy reduce a planet in less than a second to dust and, ontop of that, may recharge in one or two minutes to do it again....

    Yes, the SUn Crusher has internal components, but I ask this: In what way can the Dark Angels hurt that? Specifically if they couldn't get through the armour to do so? And how big can the Dark Angels create black holes? Can they move those black holes over lightyears? Can they do the same for stars and planets?

    Actually, I do believe neutronium is used rather extensively even for -statues-. Note that Palpatine's weird modern art statue? The one where he keeps his lightsabre in Ep 3? Neutronium. Similarly, almost all starship hulls used extensive neutronium in their construction and this is far, far inferior to the quantum-phase armour of the Suncrusher which, once again, is invulnerable.

    Could you also simply elaborate on these Dark Angels? You aren't really telling much.

    Palpatine was blinded by his own Sith ambitions and the fact that he probably go over confident in how much power he had over Vader. The Ep 3 book has an extremely powerful ending of how exactly Vader felt - once he was cyborged - towards Palpatine.

    Yes, they can, but they can also simply move out of the way very easily, in terms of military forces, or even civilian ones.

    Actually, you seem to misunderstand. The Deathstar is not "3000 times more powerful than a sun", but can produce, in a day - the Deathstar II in a few minutes - the equivalent of sun's energy over the course of 3,000 years.

    Well, considering the Deathstar III was sniping Rebel ships for sheer enjoyment, I'd have to disagree with you there. Moreover, I'm pretty sure a Star Destroyer could continue blasting at a planet longer than three hours to do significantly more damage, although it is pretty redundant once a planet's crust is destroyed.

    You know, this could actually be spoken of -against- the system. Considering it is so prone to massive failure should anything, even minutely, go wrong. It sounds very Star Trekian in its incapacity to, you know, -work- under less than ideal situations. What's next? Exploding consoles?

    You know, another thing we aren't considering: Ion weapons. They tend to -really- fuck up computer programmes.

    Actually, we do not know how easy or difficult hypermatter is to acquire. But yes, clearly anti-matter is easier to use. But this "conversion bomb" is basically super 20th century tech and not, in and of itself, that impressive.

    This sort of invalidates your "galaxy spanning" claim. Also, this makes SW laugh almsot as much as Crom laughs at the four winds. The Galaxy gun alone could completely annihilate the OA sector in a matter of a few seconds.

    You know, I'd also love to see how the Yuuzhan Vong - with their living singularities, Dovin Basals - would feel about the "infidelic" AI "Gods". I'd love to see what would happen when an AI God is sucked into a Dovin Basal, or their "deathspheres" and "conversion bombs" are similarly sucked in. Sadly, they can't be spoken of, but the Kings of Biotech (Ick) would still be fun to pit against these OA folks.
     
  15. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    WRONG. Everything I've heard puts the DSII's recharge at not much less than the DSI's, which was hours. Several of them. However, the DSII had the ability to do tactical low-power shots from its superlaser, which helps a lot.

    What armor? You mean that stuff OA has multiple weapons which routinely bypass armor? WIMPS and anti-WIMPS annihilation beams, which are only affected by gravity and can go through QC armor, the drive halo of the Dark Angel, which is a spacetime distortion drive and hence ignores armor...

    Neutronium is used a lot, but however, it isn't used in a very large proportion to mass, much less to volume. And OA neutronium is a building material, not an armor. OA godtech armor tends to be stuff that warps space itself or uses the enemy's power against them. Like ylem. A Dark Angel is made out of stuff that does near-100% energy-to-matter conversion and can do it with enemy fire. You might quite possibly have no weapons capable of stopping OA godtech ships.

    They create black holes, spray all kinds of nasty viruses, can put out energy enough to destroy worlds (hello, DS-equivalent firepower!), or simply rip the world apart via their drive system.

    True, but it still says things about Jedi precog, which can, apparently, be fooled.

    I know, but the planets can't. Which is bad for them. And the infrastructure on them.

    That's not particularly impressive given how inherently inefficient most SW weapons are, using direct energy transfer. And besides, 100,000 times more powerful than a sun + AI God assistance with some mass-energy conversion + induced magnetar bursts (and magnetar bursts are at least as powerful if not greater than DS level, mind you), they become rather powerful. And they're still invulnerable.

    Say it with me. Tactical. Superlaser.

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    It wasn't firing full power shots. And besides, destroying the crust of a planet is, against OA, first: pointless and second: a time waster. You have to turn the planet into dust. Finally, the difference between melting the crust and turning a planet into evenly distributed ash is several dozen orders of magnitude. Wonder why DS firepower is so impressive?

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    The only less than idea situation you can get is someone having subverted your compensation systems, and if something's gone that far, it's pointless doing anything. In fact, it allows a ship to easily self-destruct, a weapon which is always useful in a world where subversion is done in the middle of combat.

    They fuck up SW computers. Which aren't tough enough to survive in the core of stars. And also, ylem. Ion cannon go useless.

    point taken.

    The GG doesn't fire that fast, nor does it have enough intel on the targets to do anything. And after you got all the planets... now what? You have utterly failed to touch the AI Gods, which are all winding up for a righteous smackdown of your side. And besides, most missiles can be intercepted, especially GG ones, if there's a DA on station, just rip the systems inside to bits.

    Fun in the sense that they'll get butt-whooped. Singularity cannons are commonplace weapons on OA godtech ships. And don't YV ships not have shields? BAD BAD BAD when the enemy has ten thousand years of experience subverting things via viruses in the middle of combat. WORSE when you don't have anything capable of fighting back against subnanotech.
     
  16. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    A calculation going back to a point I made in my last post before I make my new posts:

    Suppose the Deathstar II is capable of recharging a planet-obliterating shot in 3 minutes, or to put it otherwise, produce the same amount of power as the sun does in 3,000 years. Let's then assume that the Deathstar II was capable of constantly generating power at this rate for 3,000 years. Let us see how many times more powerful than the sun the Death Star II then is:

    3 minutes = 20 per hour.
    20 per hour = 480 per day.
    480 per day = 175320 per year (if one counts the year as 365.25 days)
    175320 per year = 525,960,000 in 3,000 years.

    So the Deathstar II is capable of producing 525,960,000 times the energy of the sun in an equivalent time period.

    Now, to get onto directly arguing some points.

    If you'd like, I shall ask Arquibus whether or not he has any resources which specifically state the recharge rate of the Deathstar II.

    "QC" armour? Moreover, upon what principle does this "Drive Halo" work? I'd also like to point ou the fact that the armour of the Suncrusher itself is similarly built around subatomic particles.

    Near 100 percent energy-to-matter conversion? What process does this use? Also, you do realize that "warping space itself" is something which even Star Trek - which is insanely weak - can do, yes? Hence the principle of the "Warpdrive".

    I'd also ask you to elaborate on Ylem?

    What type of black holes? What type of viruses? What type of energy and how delievered? How do they accomplish ripping the world apart?

    Or never employed.

    For every planet lost, SW has billions which aren't. How many worlds can OA lose?

    In what way is direct energy transfer inefficient? What exactly are you referencing here? And why, again, does it even take an AI God to make mass-energy conversion? Anti-matter is pretty easily manipulated. Moreover, in what way do they employ these magnetar bursts?

    The OA AI penetrate all throughout the planet? And yes, I am quite aware that the power requirements are massively different for blowing off the curst of a planet and reducing the planet to ash.

    In general, self-destruction makes a poor weapon. For one, it sacrifices one's resources, and obviously the materials and techniques which are used are not of primarily weapons focused.

    I wouldn't scoff at SW computers, considering their massive calculation powers for hyperspace travel. Moreover, as noted before, a star is pretty piss-poor power wise in contrast to SW's normal power levels.

    The GG do not emerge from hyperspace until the very last moment, at which time they have all ready started the process whereby the target shall be annihilated. Though yes, the CG doesn't fire rapid-fire, but if the OA cannot even get to it - you know, since it is a hundred thousand+ lightyears away, minimum - it would not matter how long it takes whatsoever. Other weapons in SW may require closer-quarters, but the GG isn't one of them. Another great idea would simply be to equip the Galaxy Gun with Quantum Resonance Torpedos (the stuff that the SUn Crusher fires) to cause super novas from that same distance, exponentially increasing the power which SW has in large-scale destruction from a distance. That being said, the GG only needs as much data as a sensor sweep of the area to get locations and the like, which can likely be done in rather quickly.

    The Dovin Basals are not simply singularities, but living singularities. They are capable of easily sucking in small planetary bodies and also entire ships. Also, the YV do have shields on their ships, although Dovin Basals are pretty much better for most things. That and I'm also fairly sure YV biotech has advanced beyond the capacity to suffer from virii.
     
  17. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    ...heh heh, this is a pretty damn fun debate. Kudos.

    When you divide that by ~12 hours (IIRC the recharge time for the DS superlaser on full power), you get a mere ~2 million times the output of the sun. And a magnetar burst puts out more power than the sun does in ten to a hundred thousand years.

    Fine, but I'm still almost completely sure it's not a order of magnitude or so increase in power generation, but rather just a lower-power-shot and off-axis firing feature.

    The drive halo works via manipulating space time, and is not defensible except by other spacetime distortion weapons. I was talking about the Suncrusher's QC armor, because it'd have a fairly poor chance at stopping something only affected by gravity unless it was superdense.

    It uses the laws of relativity, as I'm sure you know of. And warping space itself is something that ST can do, but they don't quite *USE IT* as well as the OA gods do. They can use it as a weapon, a drive, an armor, etc etc etc.

    Fabric that absorbs 100% of all EM energy. Check.

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    Black holes, as in *REAL black holes*, as in the superdense pinpricks that tend to rather massively go through anything you shoot them at. And viruses which do nasty things, like destroy entire star systems, or turn planets into antimatter bombs, or turn an entire population against its rulers... or just cause an entire starfleet's crew to completely wither into dust. And they rip the world apart with their drives, which they tend to use a lot.

    Every single one and then some. They have these things called ISOs, which are kinda like the Death Star, except smarter and larger and more massive. We're talking about a giant Jupiter-sized sphere, bristling with the trappings of godhood. And made out of stuff orders of magnitude tougher than the stuff planets are made of.

    DET is inefficient in the way that no matter how you slice it, putting one joule into a target is putting one joule into a target. And no, it doesn't even take an AI God to make M/E conversion. However, they can cause more interesting things, like causing *OTHER PEOPLE'S* ships to explode rather nicely as conversion bombs, or hide them literally anywhere.

    Yep. Lower AIs penetrate far into the mantle. And that's good. I assume basic competency for anyone I debate in the topic, at least. Higher AIs build their own Jupiter-sized superbrains. And tend to exist in dozens of them at the same time.

    Not when the enemy can turn ships against their constructing sides, anyways. Then deadman switches are a good idea.

    Any hard numbers? OA computers are capable of predicting the future to a rather extreme extent, even the lesser ones. And considering naked circuitry on the OA side survives in stars, it's pretty damn impressive to live in the core of a fusing star, not considering armor. (not just the energy, but the pressure is rather extreme. Have SW ships survived that kind of pressure, save the sun crusher?)

    I know that. However, the most important targets move, and plus they are so much massively tougher than planets it doesn't matter. And then, the GG torpedoes are just big exploding things. Equipping them with QR torpedoes doesn't really increase the power so much as whiff massively against the Gods.

    No, they probably haven't, because OA viruses are something else altogether. They attack the basic building blocks of materials, subatomic particles and even quantum states.
     
  18. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    MJ12 Commando:

    Thank you. It is fun, isn't it? Glad to have it with you.

    Since Arquibus has an isnane amount of SW resources, I'll wait till he posts to determine what number we'll use for the DS' true recharge rate. Moreover, do you have any resources on the magnetar bursts for OA?

    What type of space-time distortion are we speaking of? That's a pretty vague concept. Any body of mass fundementally warps space time. In what way does this?

    It is super dense, actually. I ought to quote the passage in the book that describes it. I'll look for it later.

    Okay, so it -is- in essecne an anti-matter conversion system, also? Or does it accelerate the matter to near the speed of light, provoking that increase of mass?

    And yes, true. ST barely uses any of the cool stuff they could. Of course, it may simply be because warp drive is so pathetically developed its viability as a weapon has not been achieved.

    Shall do so.

    But how large mass wise? And so these virii are another subnanotech thing?

    Give me more info on them?

    You do realize that every action in the universe requires energy, yes? Conversion bombs require energy to create the anti-matter, yes? Equivalent to the energy released, no? And hide the ships in what manner?

    Really? Jupiter sized? I have to admit: That's pretty impressive on that level. What do they make it out of it and how massive - not simply large - are we speaking of? For instance, it is like a dyson sphere? Extremely thin and filled with holes? Or is it a solid, Jupiter-sized, metallic sphere?

    True to some extent, yes.

    Okay, so it is -naked- circuitry? Okay, that, once again, is a wee bit impressive in terms of what it is handling (tens of millions of degrees K). But as regards calculations for hyperspace, I shall present a bit later some elaboration on what must be accomplished - by a ship based navicomputer, no less - to assure the safety of a hyperspace-enabled ship.

    But no, no SW ship that I know of, has been able to survive within the sun as far as I know. Again, the non-debate Yuuzhan Vong may be able to, owing to the Dovin Basals, but I am unaware of any normal technology which would be capable of surviving in the sun.

    The planets and or/stars would be the targets for the GG, not the ships, which yes, would have to be taken on by the more direct things. Of course, the Suncrusher's QR torpedos themselves can fuck over non-star things, also, although since it is not capable of forcing a nova in such things, it eventually peters out. It did, however, pretty much wreck huge holes into the Deathstar prototype with a few QR torps.

    But to speak of QR as "big explody things" is not really accurate. There is no actual explosion from the torpedos in the star. It induces that star to go supernova through unexplained processes, which even bypass the normal mass-level necessary for a star to do as such.

    HOw are these virii dispersed?
     
  19. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

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    It's actually a known space phenomenon, although I can't find the hard numbers on it for now. I believe they were, however, significantly more powerful than supernovas.

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/bright_flash_050218.html

    Ah, there it is. Basically, within ten lightyears, it kills off most if not all people on a planet.

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    And that was an omnidirectional burst. Focus the thing into a concentrated beam kinda like the DS superlaser... it's going to be even more lethal.

    It uses tidal forces and causes a 'drag' force on space-time, quite literally dragging the target around. Part mass, part exotic spacetime manipulation, and part creativity.

    Not particularly. It's a 'you shoot it and it grows bigger' system.

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    And when it grows bigger, it turns more and more lethal. They can even divide if you shoot the thing long enough.

    Yes, subnanotech, and thousands of tons, mass wise.

    They vary so much that in principle, they're impossible to really quantify. You have mini versions which are about a few kilometers in diameter, to Jupiter-sized ones. But for the most part, they're big, huge, and carry lots of really really dangerous weapons. And that's not counting their fleets, which might well number in the hundreds of thousands in larger ships alone. OA has converted multiple planetary masses into starships before, and it isn't unprecedented. Major, yes. A one-off situation, no.

    Yes, they do require matter to create antimatter. And no, the energy expenditure is not equivalent to the energy released because they basically 'flip quantum states', as it were. It uses the enemy's ship as the mass and converts half of it to antimatter, releasing the mass energy of the enemy's ship in a big bang.

    Nope. Completely solid, and made out of some seriously dense materials.

    They were newborn AI Gods staying in stars and growing. They use the stars' mass plus the fusion energy to start building themselves up to true godhood.

    I'd expect that, most sci-fi doesn't have anything that powerful.

    QR torps aren't really that impressive in the scheme of things, not when the other side throws around missiles that cause bigger novas. (ultramegahypersuperduperubernovas?)

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    I know, I'm just saying they're of at least somewhat limited use when the enemy has weapons capable of going through the armor, like singularity cannons. Or just decelerating the QR torp and then sending it right back at you.

    Missile, bomb, particle beam, railgun slug, direct contact, if it can carry subatomic particles, it can disperse the virii.
     
  20. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,297
    The most feared weapon in the Orion's Arm Version War was the Strange Matter Virus, a device made of a species of exotic matter which attacts normal matter and turns it into strange matter. The planet or star it touches collapses into a ball of quarkonium; if the mass of the planet is too small to sustain this state, it explodes, spreading active strange matter viri into the local system.
    Drawbacks of this weapon include that you have to be very far from the target or you will be destroyed too.The Strange matter vrii were outlawed after this war; rumour has it that stockpiles still exist.

    Since that time the number of dyson spheres with phased array beam weapons has increased; any real threat approaching the OA heartland would be hit with weapons similar in power to the Deathstars, from multiple angles.

    Now for a real contest, it must be stressed the laws of the Star Trek, Star Wars and OA universes are very different. Faster-than-light ships simply doesn't work in the OA universe; if they did the Jupiter brains would have worked it out long ago. I am not sure that the Deathstar's hyperlasers would work either - they seem to draw upon energy from a different dimension or something, as there is no physical phenomenon in our universe of sufficient magnitude to explain the Deathstar's firepower.

    But to give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the energy can be channelled from the SW universe into the OA universe through a wormhole or something. Wormholes do work, of course. So a Death star would outgun any of the younger Dysons, but not the older Negentropic Dysons which are saving energy to use in the distant future when the stars have gone out. Incidentally they are going to be very pissed off that they are being forced to use their stored energy; it is a sin against negentropy to waste anything.

    The Death Star's hyperlasers would only work against planets and habitats not protected by ylem; many (perhaps the majority) of the population centres are not so protected (it has been a long time since any major interstellar conflict).

    In short, a Star Wars fleet would not be able to destroy the OA universe; without FLT, it would perhaps last afew decades and destroy a number of worlds, but eventually the interstellar defence beams would find them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  21. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,297
    A Star Trek fleet would be destroyed almost instantly if it wandered into OA territory, as few of its weapons would work, and the FTL would not work either; unless they brought an individual from the Q continuum, that is if that individual could retain his or her magical powers.

    Similarly, if an OA fleet were to venture into either the Star Wars universe or the Star Trek universe, it would probably be beaten soundly; the portable weapons used in OA are no match for hyperlaser, and the ships do not have FTL so can't pursue or escape ships from the other continua.

    Ylem would probably not work there either,as it is clarketech which relies on the fine structure of the cosmos to operate; the same is probably true of strange virii. But even if they did work they would be of little use if the slower than light OA ships were surrounded by superluminal enemies.

    Basically each universe is better off staying separate, as they would lose if they attempted to enter the other's worlds. It does seem likely that the least powerful of the fleets would be that from the Star Trek universe, with its pathetically limited artificial intelligence capacity. Data is perhaps the most advanced and flexible AI in Star Trek; his processing unit fits into a space the size of a human head. The largest OA brains are the Matrioshka brains, which utilise the entire mass of a solar system.
     
  22. Kron Maxwell's demon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    339
    Let's get the facts straight:

    1) Star Trek dies in the opening game (As proved in the ST/SW/Dune thread; ST simply doesn't have what it takes...)

    2) OA technology is based on modern scientific principles; not very impressive things to build on but OA has taken modern scientific principles to the extreme and is googols ahead of SW technology that way.

    3) SW has hyperspace, a much larger territory and Force abilities.

    I'd say it would be a very close match, but OA would win. All OA would have to do is simply assimilate Hyperspace technology from SW and use memetics to conquer its people.

    Also when I compare Dune with OA, OA wins and thats good enough for me.
     
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  23. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    first off,nothing in sw or dune can beat 8472 or the borg,they dwarf your primitive notions of strength.no one has come up with any way to beat either of them.

    second,the force is unimpresive at best.

    you have maybe a hundred people that can use the force, and conventional weapons kill them just fine.

    one SF soldier equiped with antigrav,personal shields,and a hand phaser could take out half a dozen jedi.

    lightsabers cant block phasers,and personal shields block lightsabers,and with anti grav the sf soldier could fly and prevent himself from being manipulated by ''the forces'' physical properties.

    and ST has devices which inhibite psyonic waves,so there goes the rest of your puny force power.

    jedi and sith are a pathetic mediocore group of slightly stronger humanoids.
     

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