(split) On lies, sexual harassment, and moderation

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by Magical Realist, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    So you have decided to double down, rather than own up...

    I can't say I'm surprised. The fact that the best you can come up with is continued insults against JamesR is rather indicative of your character. You cannot defend your own actions, so instead you attempt to distract and lay blame elsewhere.

    I dare say it is pretty obvious why such behavior is intolerable...?
     
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  3. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Now youv'e likely pizzed off some people who thank that ther the most intelligent poster here... lol... but i appreciate you'r straightforwardness an dont feel threatened by you'r statement cause im confident in myself an my intelligence.!!!
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I am curious. We hear these complaints a lot, and they have some common themes, such as coincidence with politics and such general complaint. Please help us understand what you mean specifically by documenting at least one occasion in which you were called "intellectually dishonest", and "simply for disagreeing with" Bells or Kiitamaru, or anyone else you might wish to direct that accusation at.

    Please understand, over the years we've heard the "simply for disagreeing" line over and over and over again, and it never quite works out. In most of those cases, the problem is that the complaints demand constricted free speech; that is, the one gets to say whatever, nobody else should retort, and when they're told this is unfair or unacceptable, they compain of being censored simply because the authority disagrees with them. We have, in another thread, a consideration of what the internet now calls "ad hom", and I'm always puzzled by what seems a very detached relationship between that version of "ad hom" and other aspects of our discourse. I mention this in part because I'm still puzzling over how trying to suppress even the slightest appearance of insult according to that many other people's perception might help post quality. The overlap with your question has to do with a context of what happens if we simply grant relief according to the complaint, and as with the question of getting rid of "ad hom", this says nothing about anything else.

    That's why context is important; for as much as we hear this bit about how it's just because someone disagrees, what it really seems like is most of the complaints have to do with someone's insistence on the right to post deliberately offensive bullshit and not have to face any criticism.

    • • •​

    I don't know how James feels about those appeals, but they always read hilariously to me.

    I think sexual harassment is way too important an issue to be exploited for "bandwagon" sloth, leading to unprepared defenses of sexual harassment that defenders pretend to not understand, thus leading to complaints about how people are being mean just because they disagree.

    One thing you might wish to bear in mind, having not been around much, is that part of the reason people are focusing on each other is that many of those relationships were set. One of the reasons people fight like they do is that it's all they have left. The Administration wanted policies enforced in a way that happened to discourage civil discourse, educated debate, or general truthful merit, thus protecting, say, advocacy of crime as long as the victims met certain criteria.

    Can you answer a question for me, please: Would you believe me if I said, "I wanted to know what this General Relativity thing is," and then presented my results, having surveyed the literature, and concluded that GR is false because, you know, this YouTuber says so, and this one quotes this other person, and what's that, a question, well, here's another YouTuber who says GR is wrong. That is to say, at some point, just statistically speaking, shouldn't I be able to find a source that isn't an editorial predisposed against General Relativity on the basis that scientists are pampered, privileged bigots deliberately spreading untruths?

    Now, then, what if what I'm arguing against isn't General Relativity, but, say, the prospect of anti-Semitism, because, you know, that's way too important to use as a bandwagon issue, right? And what if all I come up with are neo-Nazi YouTubers?

    Would criticize? What are you going to criticize? Will it matter if the resolution is that you're just going out of your way to stifle discussion because you disagree with that member, and you need to stop being so mean as to call Nazi sympathy by its name?

    Oh, and here's the twist: Say all you want about politely and calmly countering each point, because that will be a fallacy; history shows quite clearly that doesn't work. Those people aren't here to discuss, they're here to promote. And when they get called out on what they're pushing, they bawl about ad hom, or try to tell us about how we should be careful when opposing discrimination. Quite frankly, there comes a point at which it all looks like defense of bad behavior.

    And, you know, but for these trolls, maybe there was a day when Yazata's line would have passed muster, but like so much of that changing propriety, we're finally getting around to certain standards precisely because bigots want them for protection. No, seriously, fellatio as prostitution once upon a time was a fine joke, but, for instance, the studs and stallions of my generation started bawling about rape and sexual harassment, about how the men are the real victims, and now what was a joke between colleagues is now strictly inappropriate. Make sure to thank them.
     
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  7. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    You seem quite astute.!!!
     
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  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    One has only to frame this incident in a real world situation where free speech is honored and humor is routine to see how ridiculous it all is. Imagine Yazata and I conversing on a corner about the spiral anomaly seen in the skies the previous night. While ruling out ufos, I casually offer that my acquaintance James R, a boastful debunker, would say it was Venus. "He thinks all anomalies are the planet Venus", I joke and we both laugh. Suddenly James R passes by at the same moment, and in a rage demands that I apologize for lying about him or he will punch me out. Rather bemused, I give him his precious apology, and Yazata get's pissed about this and asks James R "Do you want...blah blah blah." Suddenly James R screams sexual harassment and launches into a tirade about how he thought better of Yazata blah blah blah..Suddenly Bells walks up and defends James R as a victim of sexual harrassment and Yazata defends himself mentioning what he said. Suddenly Bells punches Yazata for just telling them what he said, and the conversation abruptly ends and we go our own ways. See how absurd this all becomes in the context of reality?
     
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  9. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Indeed, it is ridiculous - most people would never say something so vile in person. The veil of anonymity the Internet provides allows for a lot of false bravado.

    Continued ad-hom attacks against James... how droll..

    A very interesting, and detailed, slandering of both James R and Bells' personalities. It does not escape notice how you simultaneously set up an easy to knock down strawman, whilst utilizing reductio ad absurdum.

    I think this little farce has continued quite long enough, however. It is quite evident you have no remorse (nor shame) regarding personal attacks.
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't see the original before the edit and Yazata edited it "snarky" whereon first glance I mistook as "kinky".

    Oh what a tangled web of imagery!

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  11. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    The biggest absurdity in the context of reality is your child like belief in flying saucers, boogie men and all that other stupid stuff.

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  12. Bells Staff Member

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    You have an over active imagination. Figures, I guess..
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Nicely put... an enjoyable read.!!!
     
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  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    In your world, does posting on an Internet forum really compare to being physically assaulted? If so I'd suggest you get out into the real world a little more - because such a comparison is what's really absurd.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    I am more concerned that he considered that level of violence to be reality.
     
  16. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Ya'll know this whole thread is out of hand, right? I mean, really... MR may or may not have been sincere and literal with his first post - James got his apology - Bells and Yazata chimed in - infractions have been issued - Kit's trying to moderate (dictionary not forum definition) - even T has added two cents.

    And you know where we are when clueluss shows up...

    OK, enough already...

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  17. river Valued Senior Member

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    Enough , agreed .
     
  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    No, not enough.

    My imagination demands it.
     
  19. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    Go suck a straw

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  20. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I'm using a glass for wine.

    But I'll keep it in mind; Monica Lewinsky and all that.
     
  21. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    She used a straw

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    ?
     
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  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yah...especially considering I was banned for a week just for posting my previous literary masterpiece. We all get the gist now...BTW..don't expect Yazata to be back. He's gone per his own words from another forum's private message to me. The good posters are dropping like flies here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  23. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Right, right.

    Hm, interesting... he just posted a few hours ago here:
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-importance-of-pseudosciences.160141/page-3#post-3485155

    If you measure "good" by "verbose" and "prolific", then sure.
     

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