again i'm very sorry that i can't share the message with you. i just don't feel comfortable doing it at all. if i could find my attempt to try and recreate the second one, i might not mind sharing it, but it's worthless, and is pointless to share here. it defeats the purpose of you even looking at it because it is not perfect...not even near. the first one that i burned was perfect, and i swear that if i had it i would share it. i was so disappointed that i couldn't recreate it but then again, it just goes to show you that i didn't write it to begin with. as for my family no, my brother has not had any experiences like this, and he wouldn't be an atheist if he had. my mom's side of the family though has had some spiritual weirdness go on. as of late, my mom doesn't connect with her spirituality at all. my grandma stopped attending church and isn't as spiritual as she used to be, or outwardly anyway, due to a series of strokes she's had over the past several years. she was the one, when i was little, who used to take me to church, and pretty much force the rest of the family to go as well as she was quite the matriarch. she used to speak in tongues a lot, and she would have these prayer meetings at her house with members of an extended family where all kinds of spiritual weirdness would go on. i have an uncle who would say that jesus inhabited his body. like he would come and go when he wanted to, and while he was "in", he would give people messages that meant something to them, but nothing necessarily to my uncle. so it was as if jesus was using his body to speak through. which is also what speaking in tongues is supposed to be to, albeit in some heavenly language that needs translation to be understood. this kind of stuff scared me when i was a kid, and i stayed out of it as much as i could. i was a polite observer. and while it was kind of intruiging in a way, because it was so weird, and it was my family, it was also a turn off for the very same reason. i think that most kids want their families to be "normal", whatever that is, and mine certainly was not. i believed them though. i knew and trusted my family members enough to know they weren't faking it, which meant something to me. i don't think i realized what it meant exactly, but it's part of who i am and i'm sure it influenced me over the years of my life. i remember one afternoon prayer meeting at my grandma's, when i was about 13 years old. my uncle ralph was in "jesus mode" and he looked at me and said, "lori, don't believe everything they teach you in school." and he said it very seriously but not emphatically. and i said, "ok." on the ride home that afternoon, my mom asked me what i was studying in school, and so i ran off a list of subjects. one being evolution in science class which grabbed her attention. i didn't think much of it myself. until this miracle happened to me. after these writings had occurred the first thing i thought of was my uncle so i wrote him a letter. he still lives just across town but i never see him except at an occasional funeral or wedding. i wanted to know what it was like when jesus was inside of him, and did and said things through him. and i wanted to know if he remembered saying what he did to me all those years ago, and if it meant anything to him. and i wanted to know if this still happened to him. it seemed strange to me that he described it as jesus and not the holy spirit. i thought it strange that he described it as an inhabitation and not a message. he called me when he got the letter and we talked a little. he told me that it did still happen to him a lot. he described it as a message that came through him vocally. he would be inclined to say things to people, and he had no idea why he was to say them. that what he said didn't mean anything to him, but he knew it meant something to them. my experience was the same, only in a written form, and seemingly much more amplified or intensified. i thanked him. this was not the only weirdness that went on with me in regards to this. and when it was all said and done (though it is not as of yet, and never will be), i reacted to it in a way that made my family and friends worry quite a bit. and while i was happier and healthier than i ever had been in my entire life, it was obvious that something had happened to me. i kept trying to explain it which i found to be futile if not impossible, and ultimately detrimental, if it served to worry the people who loved me. anyway, along with taking me to the doctor for a mri of my head, and to the psychologist for...well...nothing really except to sit and listen to my mother talk incessantly like she always does...she took me to see my uncle ralph one afternoon. she was convinced that whatever i was experiencing was evil in origin and wanted a second opinion and maybe a prayer, although she turned her back on god a long time ago, and spent most of her time that afternoon smoking cigarettes outside. i told ralph some stuff about what i had been through and what i thought it meant and it seemed to upset him a bit too. he and the rest of my family, and the rest of america for that matter have been deeply entrenched in a doctrine and dogma that don't allow a lot of room for anything else. and this is something else. they've had their interpretations of things like the bible for centuries now and there is just no telling them that they're mistaken about anything. i think most people out here know what i'm talking about. people like to be right, and tie thier ego to their beliefs, and for the most part, are not open-minded at all. when he said that he thought i was lying or that i was evil (i can't remember exactly how it was stated), i got pissed off. it was so fucking typical and i just wasn't at all interested in hearing it. i was polite though not that he was. he stood in my face and pointed his finger and said, "you were warned." i didn't understand, but i could see in his eyes that he was not "himself" and he didn't understand either. and so i asked him, "about what?", and he couldn't answer, as he had no idea what he was talking about. all he could do was repeat the message, and he did, "you were warned." and i must have asked, and he repeated four or five times over the same thing until i gave up. and i was really pissed now and wanted to leave. he suggested we pray. i said "fine". he suggested we didn't. i said "fine". and we left. i was so fucking pissed off at my mother at that point i wanted to rip her face off. but i didn't. i love my mom, and what i would describe as her idiotic ways. i did though come to understand what it meant when he said, "you were warned." he was right; i had been warned. i had been told by the holy spirit, that most religious people would not want to hear what i had to say about what i had been through and what it meant and he was right. and he so graciously reminded me of it that afternoon while my uncle was giving me a perfect example of what he had warned me about. my uncle has no idea what his message meant to me. think about that for a while.
Lori, Sharing the message isn't important at all. You said in an earlier post that you 'didn't get the impression that it was your mind at work'. You are convinced that the message 'came from outside'. That's perfectly understandable. But that in no way whatsoever means the message came form outside. We all have dreams that seem unrelated to our personal experience, but we know it is just our minds fabricating interesting mixes of mental states. But you are very comfortable with your own interpretation of it. My question is, whay do you feel the need to share this with the public the way you are? That is, trying to convince us that you really got a message from 'outside'? We don't believe you and think you need counseling of some kind. How can this possibly help you?
crunch cat asked me to. and not that i do so much anymore because i have, but i was wondering the same thing. why do/did i feel the need to share this with anyone? and the answer that i came up with is "because it happened." i mean, what is the point of something happening if it's not communicated, or if a message is not intrinsic, and if there's a message, then why not share it? and who are you speaking on behalf of when you say "we"? and why is it that you don't believe what i'm telling you? see, i'm not trying to convince you. i'm answering a question. this happened to me and i feel comfortable talking about it if someone wants to know about it. but i am not the least bit concerned with whether you believe me or not. i would encourage you though to ask yourselves why it is that you don't, for i am not a liar. i have absolutely no reason to make this up. and i am as sane as you are. the answer is that it's unusual, and it doesn't fit into your beliefs. this doesn't help me. i don't need help anymore than anyone else does. probably a lot less, and in areas that i'm well aware of, unlike many other people who think they're "right", and "sane", and "fine". most people are blind, deaf, and unfortunately run their mouths incessantly and say nothing. at least my story is interesting. this only scratches the surface. you guys have no idea of the magnitude my experience reaches. it's all about the end of the world.
My bad. I believe you had this experience. I do not believe is was from 'outside' your own mind. And you don't feel comfortable sharing such a world-shattering (literally?) communication with us? That's pretty selfish of you. Why are you keeping the content of the message to yourself?
This is interesting. Why is it that people who claim to be "open minded" are usually those most unable to recognise their own limitations? What does being open-minded mean? Does it mean agreeing with whatever anyone tells you? Whatever you read? Or does it mean being open to likely possibilities or any and every possibility? I'll tell you what it means to me. It means acknowledging the possibility of many things, including those that are, given the evidence or lack thereof, highly unlikely and ranking them on a scale of probability. So, while the possibility is there that Big Foot may exist, the probability based on many, many things is extremely low, as any rational person would agree. Same goes for supernatural messages from 'out there', but even less so. Your say-so alone is meaningless. The say-so of anyone is meaningless. Unless there's a pragmatic body of evidence to support a claim, that's all it is - a claim. So, who's open minded, and how far is that? Far enough to admit possibilities but assign rational probabilities (or likelyhoods)? Or so far that any claim is met with the same level of credulity as any other? If so, that's called gullability. So think before you label an intelligent person who weighs the likelyhood of a thing against all the evidence and knowledge he can gather as "close-minded".
have you ever wondered, if you are willing to reject any information that conflicts with your existing paradigm, how it is that you expect to grow or develop as a human being?
i see. i do feel very comfortable sharing that particular message with you. it is not the same message that was contained in the poem. the message that was contained in the poem was personal to the recipient. that's why i won't. i would love to share my message with you, but right now, i'm off to see the roller derby with my dad. i'll probably be on later. have a lovely evening all.
That's pretty goddamned disengenuous given what I just wrote. I'm willing to question my paradigm any time, given sufficient evidence. You apparently, are not as considering evidence (or lack thereof) seems anathema to you.
what the fuck do you think i'm giving you? the facts are, that the only two reasons you have for not believing what i'm telling you are... 1) it's unusual and 2) you don't want to. it disturbs you doesn't it? i can tell. it scares you. well, i haven't even gotten started. what do you think is a better way to learn? out of a book, or from your own experience?
so you're acknowledging the possibility...congratulations. you brave soul you. and my testimony and anyone else's true testimony is never ever meaningless. what an absolutely horrible thing to say. i don't expect you to believe in god just because i describe my experience to you. what i do expect is for you to acknowledge that you have absolutely no reason not to believe my testimony and that my testimony could open the realm of possibility in your mind, and in your heart. and if that were to truely happen, you could have an experience of your own, and THAT would be evidence and knowledge that you could use.
Lori... you just need to come back down to Earth and see it from an atheists point of view. Basically, even though you didn't really go into specifics with that post, I kinda knew what you were talking about. Why? Because I am also human the same as you. Same emotions, but different beliefs. So going by your vague descriptions, I feel it is very significant that I somehow knew what you were talking about. You could quite easily say that this was god if you like, but I have a feeling it's more to do with that grey matter between your ears. Learn it, trust it, feel it.
I have a friend whom claims to have witnessed (multiple times) a self-proclaimed priestess of some Christian denomination walk around to people in any social gathering, deliver messages from 'God' in a similar fashion to what you describe, and touch people whom were demon infested (they would all fall down in convulsions and arise different -presumably demonless-). Have you encountered any experiences where touching appears to affect someone?
You can start out from a book and learn things, yes. When you speak of experience, you're talking about guessing from the imagination, which is primarily what you do. So no, that's not learning, that's imagining, and often it is wrong.
Depends on what you're learning about. Reading 500 books on swimming will not help you when I dunk you in the pool the very first time. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I think you should use your experience as a motivation to learn about it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Bull... shit. You haven't given any objective supportive evidence to back yourself up. Your testimony, and anyone elses is USELESS. Don't you know this? Here's a test for you. I had this strange vision last night (far more than a dream!). In it I saw you in a near-fatal car crash within three weeks from now. My warning: Do not drive for the next three weeks! Please, believe me. I beg you. What I'm telling you is absoulte truth. I'm totally serious here. DO NOT DRIVE FOR THE NEXT THREE WEEKS! What will you do?
Why? Because I don't trust you implicitly? Does that hurt your ego? Because I don't accept what Lori is saying? Pffftt.
sl listen...i feel like i need to explain some things to you and to anyone else who you've anonymously included in "we". first of all, i was posting my post and the same time you were posting yours about paradigms and probablilities, so i wasn't trying to be disengenuous. secondly, you know guys..."we"...the other we, of which i am included, are very well aware at this point that any experience that falls outside the realm of your existing beliefs is labeled by you a delusion, a trick of the mind that happens due to who knows why...stress, desire, imagination, some physical or psychological ailment. we get it ok? there is no real reason, other than to coddle your own insecurities and egos to be reiterating this opinion of your so often, and may i say, uninvited or appreciated. now, i came out here to share my experiences. why? because someone expressed an interest in them and asked me to. and i like to share. i in no way agree with you that sharing is meaningless. i happen to believe the exact opposite. i believe that communion is what gives life meaning and purpose. what you guys need to understand about me is that i'm perfectly content and confident in my own ability to perceive, interpret, and understand my own life and experiences. that's not to say that i've understood everything that has happened to me because i haven't, and i don't necessarily expect to all the time, which i have to point out, is a very different perspective from your own right there. here i have given you a little, teeny blurp into my life. just a miniscul fraction of the big picture that i have lived every day for 40 years now. and with that and without being asked to, you took it upon yourself to practically diagnose me, or to put it more mildly, to offer up your judgement or opinion regarding MY experience. don't you think that a bit strange? and i dare say irresponsible? i don't really think it strange anymore because i'm used to it, but i urge you to examine your own intentions here. i understand what's going on in my own life more than you do. and why you think otherwise might be a good question for you to ask yourself. and you know, i might be tempted to say that i'm in a minority group of us who describe having spiritual interactions or experiences, but i don't think that's true. it seems pretty clear to me, based upon the evidence, a lot of which is testimony, some of which is not, that i'm actually in the majority. which minority or majority either way, i've just pointed out a fatal flaw in your probability justification. now with that said, you are entitled to your own opinion. if you don't want to believe in a spiritual realm, and so you seek to label any and all things spiritual a delusion, or attribute them to something else, i respect that opinion. i think it's idiotic, but it's yours and you have every right to it, but please don't confuse that respect with a desire on my part to hear it expressed. i get it.
that analogy isn't applicable. i'm not asking you to do anything or to not do anything in response to my testimony. it's just to listen to and appreciate or not appreciate. i don't care if you believe me sl. i'm not surprised about it...
