Space elevators?!?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by orcot, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    That would be the ultimate whiplash. A kind of global flogging!
     
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  3. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    the beam would be around 5 times longer then the planet I'm sure the centrifugal forces together with friction would make it snap no matter how heavy/strong it is, so the mayor part is going to fly away on it's own
     
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  5. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    G'day, mates. I've just had a swell idea.

    You (all) post a list of the TOP TEN practical engineering problems indigenous to the erection and operation of a convenient and economical and safe orbit elevator and then you (all) post your thoroughly worked out design engineering solution to each problem.

    Of course, if you go over ten, you have my permission to post all 1,010, or one Gillian and ten, or, however many serious problems you fumble and stumble across.

    Then you and me and cute little baby head Pete and Dave and everybody can read and weep or perhaps laugh with joy about how easy and cheap and safe it is going to be to get off of Earth by an orbit elevator.

    Just one idea for you (all) to think about: 22,222 miles of nanotube tether, levitating motors, superconductor cable, refrigerant piping, payload cars, payload cargo, payload passengers, etc., etc., etc., etc., all of which is beneath geostat orbital altitude and therefore is moving slower than orbital velocity, enjoying the moment that the tether snaps and falls to the surface.

    Major disaster?

    How 'bout it, mates? Who's posting number one?
     
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  7. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    The problems are a equation http://www.zadar.net/space-elevator/.

    Look their are things that aren't yet possible today, but todays limits are not the limits in 10 or 20 years, and it's theoreticly possible, the fact is that I personally (opinion) have little faith in alternative "cheap" space flight...
    Besides even if the space elevator would be replaced by a cheaper way of transportation your still going to gave nano tubes in your computer by 2010-20
     
  8. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the link, I'll read it avidly.

    But do you think carbon nanotubes will, sooner or later, replace copper wires? No more soldering... there goes half of my career plans!

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  9. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    ... Not anytime soon. But perhaps there wont be any copper anymore in chips in a year or 10 http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2005/06/06/daily32.html.
    Anyway where there is a market there is budget for further development and where there is mass production costs plumit


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_applications_of_carbon_nanotubes
    Technology that can be used to make water tight clothes, solar cells, water filters and electronics... that's a wide range of rechearge all contributing on what eventualy could be used to make a space elevator
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
  10. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    1,612
    In view of the fact that no responsible person on the planet would agree to the attempted construction of a structure that would cause a worldwide catastrophe when it fails, the subject of an orbit elevator is interesting fantasy, but is in the same Pseudoscience category, according to the rules of this physics forum, as UFOs.

    Since any attempt to build one ( an orbit elevator ) would be restrained, the concept is untestable and must be considered Pseudoscience according to this physics forum.
     
  11. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Hard luck, it's not pseudoscience: it's engineering.
     
  12. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    What's a worldwide disaster? I imagen that a nuclear meltdown somewhere in doel would spread a radioactive cloud over antwerp and Rotterdam effectivly killing millions and cutting of a enormous amount of the European shipyard... doel ever heard of it? Almost nobody does... how much structures where build that would cause a worldwide catastrophe... considering oil pipelines, nuclear arsenals honnestly I would now how to begin, it's not that there are douzens of examples you would have to categorise them to keep track?


    Besides... it's not pseudo science today it would still have to be build by unobtanium but the math is sound the problems can be overcome. The quistion is when exactly will it be possible to build the necesairy materials and if it by that time is still the most economic possibility. Money would not be a problem unless costs go over what some rediculous amound like 250 billion
     
  13. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    This is typical of the blinkered thinking that has infected humanity since Ug said to Og, "Pointed sticks won't help you catch antelope, they'll just poke your own eyes out if you're careless."

    Many of the problems of the space elevator have been identified, described and quantified. That is not pseudoscience.

    Some of these problems have been solved, at least on a theoretical basis. That is not pseudoscience.

    Other problems have had their solutions sketched out, with the necessary research and development outlined. That is not pseudoscience.
     
  14. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

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    Here here! A good dose of technological optimism can never be misplaced. Well said.

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  15. orcot Valued Senior Member

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  16. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    The worst is yet to come for fanciful daydreamers who live in world of hallucinations.

    Have you ever heard of Faraday law of induction?

    Give it some thought ( OK, you can give it a lot of thought.

    Sweet dreams.
     
  17. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday's_law_of_induction

    It can proberly handle a large voltage altough it's best to keep it away from lighning prone area's. There are proberly tricks and sorts to deal with this altough if the magnetic field is only 30 to 60 microteslas this might not be that much of a problem

    By the way I might be wrong abouth this but the space elevator stands static seen from earth do you actually get electromagnetic induction if both the magnet and the conductor are rotating at the same speed?
     
  18. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    1,612
    Do yourself a favor and bone up on whether a rotating magnet and its field lines rotate in synchrony.

    Helpful hint: NOT.

    No kidding. And this has been proved many, many, many years ago and openly published in physics literature. Though perhaps not in your ordinary literature.

    Do some research and then do some rigorous calculations and then tell me how many thousands upon thousands of volts you dreamily believe that the orbit elevator can be be designed to tolerate.
     
  19. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Okay give me a brake I havent seen inductions and stuff for 5 years. So the earths magnetic fields rotates ad a different speed then the planets surface and exactly for this reason we have a magnetic field in the first place...
    Do you have any info on the effects of this on power lines here on the surface of the earth (because those chould be affected as well) they might be many times shorter but their diagnally on the earths surface so they chould cross more fieldlines (do they actually? I forgot Do you get a EM if you move a conductor up and down a magnet in stead of letting it rotate around it?)
    Well thousands and thousands if it proves necesairy, it's yust a problem to keep the ampere low. (sorry but I don't have the data to perform any rigorous calcs

    I'm guessing here but any climber is proberly going to be electrical perhaps it can use the energy in combination with whatever it uses as a energy source
     
  20. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    You are doing way to much guessing.

    If you are hoping to be a positive spokesman in favor of an orbit elevator then you are fired for being an abject failure.

    An orbit elevator tether composed of carbon nanotubes having a metallic conductance will enjoy an induced voltage of WOO HA !

    The induced voltage will induce a current of WOO WOO HA HA !!

    The induced current will make a back torque of prodigeous proportions.

    The orbit elevator will be stopped dead in its tracks before it can get started almost.

    Sorry, investors.
     
  21. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    My answer is simple no negative effect chould be expected by such a small force unless proven.
    Show me the formula that explains these massive build ups in a 30 microteslas enviroments with a tether that cuts a min on field lines ad such a low speed
     
  22. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    I do not need to show you anything. If anyone is so naive to think that an orbit elevator could even get started, much less continue to operate for more than a moment, and if they are so stupid as to invest even one penny in such a fool's errand, then that is their business.

    All of my money is elsewhere.
     
  23. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    With current materials no but by perfecting those that we have in a way that we can resenably prodict so yes but it might take a decade or 2 (before any mission to mars).
    And it will be the only economic way up in space for the next +century
     

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