woody dont forget these other christians adolf hitler, Torquemada, david koresh, Il Duce, joseph smith, wow to many to name i'll be here all night.
Skinwalker about the christian movement: It's up to the secular anthropologists who write the textbooks. Jesus: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Woody: Your anthropologists just lost their credibility with me, and I was beginning to respect them. They disagree with Christ himself who warned us about the likes of Koresh, Jones and Moon. We are supposed to flee anyone that claims to be God no matter how charismatic they might appear, and this warning came from the very lips of our savior. Jim Jones and David Koresh both claimed to be God. Both lived grossly immoral lives. Sun Yung Moon claims to be yet another God. Do you really think Moon is a christian? Geez give me a break. Skinwalker said: It's logical that those that consider themselves "christian" would want to distance themselves from The Peoples' Temple. Woody: I distance myself from Moon or anyone else that claims they are God, because Jesus tells me to if I want to survive. What do your anthropologists have to say if anything at all about the antichrists? Disappointing man, really disappointing. They show no knowledge of christianity in my opinion, and I have been a christian for 23 years. Instead, they show they have an axe to grind. Bible:Ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. excerpts from the following link: The Jim Jones Web Site According to the San Francisco Chronicle, “’When Jimmy come back from seeing Father Divine, he was a changed man,’ Cordell said. ‘I saw it right away. . . . I sensed the change. After that, it was 'my way or no way.' It was 'I am He. I'm in control.' He was not just the pastor in the church. He was The Man. Father Divine convinced him he was The Man -- that he was God.’ Max Knight, who knew Jones as a kid growing up in Lynn and later as a reporter working at the Richmond (Ind.) Palladium, a local paper, also blames Father Divine." From that moment on, Jim went downhill fast," Knight said. "He got into drugs. He got into sex. You name it. He felt that he was bigger than God himself, and it destroyed him. He became a little god of his own. JJ would 'boast for hours of his sexual exploits while forbidding all sexual relations between members of his flock'.. JJ had learned from Father Divine the importance of himself becoming the object of sexual desire of the whole congregation. Woody: And the world calls this christianity -- a sad, sad, world indeed. Jesus: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Woody: Yeah Jesus I listen to you, you are right, so right! I am a sheep and you know what wolves do to sheep. Preacher: woody dont forget these other christians adolf hitler, Torquemada, david koresh, Il Duce, joseph smith, wow to many to name i'll be here all night. Woody: You left out Moon, and Jesus tells us there will be many many more false prophets to come. You don't seem to know the difference between a counterfeit dollar and a real dollar. To you they are both the same thing because somebody called them a dollar and the fake one has "dollar" written on it. Do you trust everything "somebody" tells you and the label they put on it for you? We just had an easter service in church and we didn't celebrate any of these devils. We celebrated Jesus Christ's victory over death. What about Moon and the unification church anybody? There's a devil for you. How do christians know the differenc? Because Jesus brings us life, and the false prophets bring us perversion and death.
I could take it out, but this has been a really traumatic day for me and t'is but a small remedy to bring me some joy for my suffering. Alas, I see you have edited your message, so that my reply loses its' relevance. Because of that I shall remove the post, but keep a link to the image in this post, because maybe it'll come handy to other readers. http://www.divine-interventions.com/jackhammer.html
This on the unification church: Unification Church Unification Church: Christ supposedly told Moon that he would be "the completer of man's salvation by being the Second Coming of Christ" (Sun Myung Moon and The Unification Church, James Bjornstad, p. 9). After World War II, Moon returned to Pyongyang, the capital of communist North Korea, where he set up his first church (1945). Woody: This is not what Jesus told us in the bible. Jesus told us that Moon is a false prophet just by the nature of Moon's claim, so who's lieing Jesus or Moon? Jesus: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Woody: Moon fits the description of "any man" does he not? Unification Church: There, according to reports, Moon involved his congregation in an unusual ritual known as "blood separation," during which female members of the church were required to have sex with him to cleanse themselves of Satan's influence. In 1948, North Korean authorities arrested and jailed Moon (he spent two years in a labor camp), accusing him of bigotry and adultery. Moon was finally liberated by United Nations' troops during the Korean War (1950). (Still today, Moon's sermons focus on sex and the idea of female submissiveness. In 1995, on "True Parents Day," he observed, "Woman was born to connect in love with man's sexual organ. Man and woman's sexual organs are the place of the true love palace.") After the Korean War, Moon fled to South Korea and established the Unification Church, which now claims three million members in more than 120 countries (about 40-45 thousand U.S.), but both these figures are believed by many to be grossly exaggerated. Woody: So you see that perversion comes with every antichrist. Unfication Church: This "church" has been the subject of much negative U.S. publicity, primarily due to alleged unethical recruitment and fund-raising tactics and Moon's authoritative leadership style. In 1982, Moon was convicted of federal income tax fraud, for which he served 11 months (of an 18-month sentence) in federal prison (beginning in the summer of 1984). Woody: I guess 20 something rolls royces and a mansion weren't enough for this so called "God." Unification Church: Moon has also launched numerous business ventures, and with the free labor of his followers, has built a multi-million dollar empire that includes pharmaceutical companies, manufacturing, banking, publishing, and other industries. (The Unification News is a monthly newspaper owned by the Church. They also publish a monthly magazine called Insight. While not an official publication of the Unification Church, the Church does own and operate the Washington Times, located in Washington, D.C. Today's World is a monthly magazine.) Moon is a permanent resident of the U.S. (since 1973), and believes that the U.S. will be the future base of operations for the "Lord of the Second Advent" (a title to which Moon himself has laid claim!). Bible: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Woody: The false christs live lavish lifestyles. Here is Moon with a financial empire. He sleeps on a soft pillow, but his day of judgement is coming. Jesus: And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. Jesus is the real thing. Do you see him riding a gold chariot, starting Christ Corporation, living a sumptuous life of ease? No he died a cruel death on a cross. It isn't hard for a christian to tell the real thing from the fakes. But the whole world has fallen for the lie. Unification church: 1. Source of Authority. The Moonies teach that the Bible is "not the truth itself, but a textbook teaching the truth." Moon's 536-page spiritual manifesto, Divine Principle (1957), is considered to be their scriptures (supposedly revealed directly to Moon by Jesus Christ), along with the Bible. (Divine Principle is considered to be the "third testament" of the Bible, and superior to the Bible.) They also believe in continuing revelation. (Moon claims to have received new revelations from God; i.e., "I spoke with Jesus Christ in the spirit world. And I also spoke with John the Baptist. This is my authority.") [HJB] Even Divine Principle is not the complete truth. "The Divine Principle revealed in this book is only part of the new truth. ... as time goes on, deeper parts of the truth will be continually revealed" (Unification Theology, p. 16). Woody: Yep, the same old lie told by every false prophet -- his "revelation" is better than the bible. Satan, can't you get a little more creative, I mean this is really getting old? But I see it still works because you have Preacher and Skinwalker hooked on your lie about christians. Yep, man never seems to learn. Man fell for your lie at the Garden of Eden, and look how "wise" he is now!
Audible said: I'm still confused, on the one hand you say occultists are not crazy for believeing in the supernatural, on the other hand you say christians are crazy for believing in the supernatural. Then you say: Yet occultists believe there is a supernatural. Audible, I am beginning to wonder about your rationality.
Preacher said, Actually Hitler is one of your own, Preacher, as he adopted Darwinism over Judeo-Christianity: From Darwin to Hitler Quotation from Book: In this compelling and painstakingly researched work of intellectual history, Richard Weikart explains the revolutionary impact Darwinism had on ethics and morality. He demonstrates that many leading Darwinian biologists and social thinkers in Germany believed that Darwinism overturned traditional Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment ethics, especially those pertaining to the sacredness of human life. Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism, yet simultaneously exalted evolutionary "fitness" (especially in terms of intelligence and health) as the highest arbiter of morality. Weikart concludes that Darwinism played a key role not only in the rise of eugenics, but also in euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination, all ultimately embraced by the Nazis. Woody: I see what happens when biologists are in charge of morality -- sickening, gross out, yuck! Where in the H**l do people come up with such ludicrous reamarks as yours , preacher? Hitler a christian, yeah, and I'm the queen of england! Lookie here -- the Nazis embraced infanticide, abortion, euthanasia. Not far from the American position I might add. "Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism" -- yeah, not much different from a lot of atheists on this forum. I'll be getting to that maggot named David Koresh, just give me a little time.
Woody, you can disagree that Koresh, Jones, Moon, et al were christians all you want. They were christian cults. They used the judeo-christian bible as a source of information and an instrument of power among their followers. I understand how you feel about them being considered "christian," however, but from a secular point of view of an anthropologist, no religion is "right" or of a "one true god." It's all a bunch of cult worship and superstition. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it is. I also recognize that christians are often, though not always, religious bigots and cannot accept that other religions (or even cults within the christian religion) are valid. If a cult leader calls himself "god," it has no more bearing to me than if you -a christian- say he's not. The concept of "god" is equally ludicrous to whether a person claims he/she is one or whether a person claims there is one, but living somewhere in space where it can see/know all. But as far as anthropologists citing Koresh et al as christians, they do it while simultaneously acknowledging that while being "christian," Koresh was a deviant from the mainstream cult of christianity and created his own cult following separate from it. But the "christian" characteristics were still present: a belief that Jesus was a savior; a belief in the word of the bible; a belief in christian symbols like the cross, etc.
of course your confused you a xian, but did'nt say that.( Non Sequitur ) however you have no need to wonder about my rationality, I'm not plagued with delusional thoughts of a sky daddy. however only posting half of my post, does'nt cut it I said dont you think, that out of the 24 voters 15 did'nt choose no 1, and yet 13 choose no 3, it because like me they found no 1 reduntant.
Audible:dont you think, that out of the 24 voters 15 did'nt choose no 1, and yet 13 choose no 3, it because like me they found no 1 reduntant. Woody: Your english is breaking up. One atheist did not vote that way, he voted they are crazy and they could offer human sacrifices. I don't just assume they were thinking like you. Perhaps they can do a better job of explaining themselves. There are 2 billion christians in this world of 6 billion people, and you think they are all crazy? You think you speak for all atheists?
Skinwalker said: Woody, you can disagree that Koresh, Jones, Moon, et al were christians all you want. They were christian cults. They used the judeo-christian bible as a source of information and an instrument of power among their followers. Woody: The bible warns of of many antichrists that are tares among the wheat. Can you name one? How do your anthropologists buddies explain this parable from Jesus: Jesus:Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Jesus answers his own parable: He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Woody: It's pretty clear to a christian that Jones, Koresh, et al went to hell. Moon is on his way. It is clear from the bible that these have a special place in hell reserved for them: Bible: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Woody: Yes, Isn't it true Skinwalker, that the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of by yourself and your anthropoligist friends because of what the false prophets have done? The book is 2000 years old and it speaks of you all today. Look at these verses from the book of Jude and honestly tell me they don't describe Jones, Koresh, and Moon: Bible: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Yep, Koresh and Jones busted hell wide open. Moon will do the same. Do you know what "lascivious" means? lascivious /lsivviss/ • adjective feeling or showing an overt or offensive sexual desire. Some dictionaries have a picture beside a word. Jones, Father Devine, Moon, Koresh -- any of their pictures will do for the word "lascivious". They define the word "lascivious". Look at their lifestyles and tell me they don't. The bible speaks of these vulgar individuals, just as it speaks of satan. But that hardly makes them christians, and christians do not go to hell.
Vedas, Bible, Quoran, Torah, they all describe people, their actions and desires. People don't change. There's nothing prophetic.
According to John, In the beginning only the the Word was there. The word was with God. The Word is God.... http://www.jesus-institute.org/life...-is-Jesus-by-john/gospel-of-john-1_1-18.shtml
Skinwalker said: But the "christian" characteristics were still present: a belief that Jesus was a savior; a belief in the word of the bible; a belief in christian symbols like the cross, etc. Elton John, Marylin Manson, Boy George, Madonna, and most of the heavy metal bands wear crosses. Does this associate them with christians in the anthropologist's line of thinking? Bible: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Do anthropologists think satan and the devils fit the definition of christian?
