Some facts about guns in the US

One could make a similar comment about right-to-abortion, and it's corresponding industry.

Oh yes, I said it. Deal.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

No I don't think one can. The pro-choice lobby is much smaller then the gun lobby, makes far less money and I find it hard to believe you can quote them saying they will abort more fetuses if any regulations are put on them.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Heh. Thought we'd clash on this one. =)

No, it's not a perfect parallel, but there seems to me to be the same kind of visceral reaction to the suggestion of more controls on abortion despite the fact that abortion takes more lives than guns each year. (Hell, tobacco takes probably an order of magnitude more lives each year and is completely without even the legal morality of the 2nd Amendment.)

Abortion advocates aren't threatening more abortions that I know of, but death - real death, not the threat thereof - is implicit in their mandate. Like the gun lobby, they assert their rights shrilly and viscerally as a reaction to intrusion into their belief space. It just strikes me as kind of hypocritical. How many deaths result from legally-owned guns vs. illegal ones vs. the other horrible ways that death is inflicted on us by the merchant class? Not too many, I'd bet, although the incidents themselves are probably much horrible, individually.

(I know the whole comparison seems a little OT, but is the pro-choice lobby really smaller than the gun lobby? NOW, PP, etc? http://www.ask.com/wiki/Category:Pro-choice_organizations_in_the_United_States They certainly do make a lot less money, of course; a couple orders of magnitude, I'm sure.)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Its arguable if a fetus is a "life", smoking kills the user by user's own choice and awareness, shooting other people dead is where morality line is firmly placed. I'm not sure what regulations on abortion your speaking of, I'm not a advocate so I don't hear their shrill visceral reactions, but for guns when ever there is a shooting there is talk of gun control and the gun nuts go crazy in response.

 

What I'd like to see is a rational evaluation of the numbers. Who, how many, when, what ratios. I think Biden has some more comprehensive plan but I haven't read it.

 

National Gun Appreciation Day

National Gun Appreciation Day

It's worth noting that we have an unofficial "National Gun Appreciation Day" in the U.S. Indeed, Saturday was the first of what is intended to be an annual event. As you might imagine, it went off with a bang:

Accidental shootings at gun shows in North Carolina, Indiana and Ohio left five people injured Saturday, the same day that thousands of gun advocates gathered peacefully at state capitals around the U.S. to rally against stricter firearm limits.

At the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh, a 12-gauge shotgun discharged as its owner unzipped its case for a law enforcement officer to check at a security entrance, injuring three people, state Agriculture Department spokesman Brian Long said.

Two bystanders were hit by shotgun pellets and taken to a hospital. A retired deputy sheriff suffered a slight hand injury.

The shotgun's owner, 36-year-old Gary Lynn Wilson, brought the weapon to the show to find a private buyer, Long said. Sheriff Donnie Harrison said that it was too early to know whether Wilson might be charged but that it appeared to be an accident.

(Associated Press)​

Couldn't see that one coming, could you?

In Indianapolis, police said a 54-year-old man was injured when he inadvertently shot himself while leaving a gun show.

Emory L. Cozee was loading his .45-caliber semi-automatic when he shot himself in the hand as he was leaving the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show at the state fairgrounds, state police said. Loaded personal weapons aren't allowed inside the show.

Cozee, of Indianapolis, was hospitalized for treatment. Police say the shooting was accidental and no charges will be filed.​

I take it you're not surprised.

And in Ohio, a gun dealer in Medina was checking out a semi-automatic handgun he had bought Saturday when he accidentally pulled the trigger, injuring his friend, police said. The gun's magazine had been removed from the firearm, but one round remained in the chamber, police said.

Police Chief Pat Berarducci said it appears the bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck the friend in the arm and leg. The man was taken by helicopter to a hospital 30 miles north in Cleveland, Berarducci said. His condition wasn't immediately known.​

Sounds like a great party, eh?

Remind me to stay the hell away from anyplace a large number of alleged responsible gun owners are getting together. Oh, wait, you won't need to remind me; some things I can actually figure out for myself.

Meanwhile, in Albuquerque:

A 15-year-old boy remained in custody Sunday night as detectives tried to piece together what led to the shooting of his parents and three of their children who were found dead in a New Mexico home.

The teenager was arrested on murder and other charges in connection with the shootings, which happened Saturday night at the home in a rural area southwest of downtown Albuquerque, said Lt. Sid Covington, a Bernalillo County sheriff's spokesman.

Authorities identified the victims late Sunday as Greg Griego, 51, his wife Sara Griego, 40, and three of their children: a 9-year-old boy, Zephania Griego, and daughters Jael Griego, 5, and Angelina Griego, 2.

(Montoya Bryan)​

And in Las Vegas:

One or more gunmen opened fire on a crowded soccer field in the northern part of the Las Vegas Valley late Saturday morning, hitting a pair of women - one in the leg and the other across the chest. Neither wound was considered life-threatening.

The shooting, which police called a random act, led to the evacuation of the Teton Trails Park at Bradley Road and Wispering Sands Drive.

"There's nothing that seems to suggest that the women were actually targeted because neither was standing anywhere near the other," said officer Marcus Martin, a public information officer for the Metropolitan Police Department. "It was just some moron with a gun."

(Ragan)​

All in all, I'd say the first annual National Gun Appreciation Day was a resounding success. So let's celebrate with this revue of responsible gun owners in America:

[video=youtube;5fWHFMQ8Wlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk[/video]​

Okay, they're not all responsible gun owners, but ... well, you know.
____________________

Notes:

Associated Press. "Gun Show Shootings: At Least 5 Hurt In Accidental Incidents In Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina". The Huffington Post. January 19, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. January 20, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/gun-show-shootings_n_2513057.html

Montoya Bryan, Susan. "Albuquerque Shooting: Teenager Kills 5 People, Including 3 Children". The Huffington Post. January 20, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. January 20, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...oting-2013-new-mexico-teenager_n_2516424.html

Ragan, Tom. "Two women wounded in Las Vegas soccer field shooting". Las Vegas Review-Journal. January 19, 2013. LVRJ.com. January 20, 2013. http://www.lvrj.com/news/two-women-wounded-in-las-vegas-soccer-field-shooting-187605991.html

See Also:

Noble, Oliver. "Gun FAILS: Second Amendment Rights Gone Wrong In Honor Of 'Gun Appreciation Day'". The Huffington Post. January 17, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. January 20, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/gun-fails-second-amendment-rights-gone-wrong_n_2490579.html

 

this is rude. We are not all inbred or morons...

they are not. There are civilian weapons. And then there are military weapons. Military type hardwear needs a strict permit. Most folks have civilian weapons.

there function is that of the user. Like target shooting, hunting, self defense.

 

Make accessible guns to angry brats and this is what they do. If the father would not have weapons he and the rest of the family would be alive today !!!!!!!

Here's what we know for sure: a family five were found dead in a house in a secluded area just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico on Saturday night. The bodies included an adult male, and adult female, one juvenile male and two juvenile females . An unidentified 15-year-old was arrested and charged for killing all five people. Several weapons were found inside the house, including a military style assault rifle. Police officials wouldn't disclose any relation between the shooter and the family or any of the identities, either.


Locally, KOB 4 reports the father's name is Greg Griego, a local pastor who works with the fire department, and the shooter's name is Nehemiah Griego. A neighbour told the Associated Press he "has seen a married couple and their two boys and two girls from time to time." KOB also reports police believe the shooter primarily used an AR-15 rifle, the same weapon used by James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado and Adam Lanza in Newtown, Connecticut.

 

Fact: in the last 11 years 67.25% of all homicides were committed with guns in the USA.
http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/#view=all

 

Yes, No, and Maybe

To the one, yes, as an abstract assertion. To the other, as a response to KWHilborn's point, no.

That is to say, we hear much from gun advocates about how cars, pencils, or hammers can be used to kill people, and while this is true, none of those things were created specifically for killing. My ten-inch kitchen knife is a deadly slashing and stabbing weapon if I choose to put it to that use, but unlike a SOG Pentagon, it's designed for kitchen use.

True, there are "target" rifles, but that classification includes AR-15s with a scope and laser sight.

Guns, unlike hammers, are designed to kill.

I believe it was Eric van Lustbader who once documented over one hundred fifty lethal objects in a hotel room, including notions like strangling someone with a phone cord. I guarantee that while I might be able to kill someone with a CAT-5 cable, it wasn't designed for that purpose. And if someone took that cable to an elementary school, how many children do you think he could kill before someone stopped him?

My solution to the American gun control debate is simple enough, but gun enthusiasts I've known and discussed it with over the years just won't put up with it:

• Every firearm is registered with the states according to a federal standard that provides baseline requirements.

• Every firearm owner must carry firearm liability insurance.

• Every firearm owner is legally and civilly responsible for the use of his or her weapons.​

Correction: I've known two gun owners who would accept these terms. Both, incidentally, are political liberals. One got rid of his firearms when he concluded that he did not need them; he's a trained martial artist who hasn't hunted in over twenty years, and decided a firearm for defense was extraneous. The other loathes the NRA, owns three guns, and finds the majority of his fellow gun owners scary for their obsessive attitudes.

Still, though, firearm registration is generally regarded as an infringement on rights. Liability insurance is regarded as an infringement on rights. And legal and civil responsibility is, apparently, too much to ask insofar as there should be no accidental shootings.

While this is true of gun owners as well as Americans in general, what the public really needs from shooting enthusiasts is some evidence of a significant faction within the firearms community that not only disagrees the extreme rhetoric of the NRA and idiotic business leaders like James Yeager, but is willing to stand up and tell them they're wrong. While there are many firearm owners and enthusiasts who do find such rhetoric discouraging and even dangerous, the larger public still sees them as supporters, much like post-election debate among Republicans confirms that it wasn't really about Todd Akin's or Richard Mourdock's loathsome words about women and rape, but, rather, that they didn't express themselves well enough. That is, there are some points that cannot be expressed well enough to not offend general decency.

 

"Self defense" involves killing people (or in many cases the threat of killing people, which is further demonstration that that's what they are designed to do.)

Guns are designed to kill. That's why terms like "stopping power" are used. They can be used for other things, like target shooting, but they are designed, first and foremost, to kill.

 

I second you . The only purpose is to make a hole in a body rip the inside and let the body bleed to death.

 

Like free speech insurance, or freedom of assembly insurance, or insurance against some bad thing their church might do, that's a nonstarter.

It would be even less justifiable than a poll tax - voting is not a specifically enumerated Constitutional right.

 

I could buy rubber rounds for a 12 gauge shot gun, or fire a warning shot near the threatening individual.
On the other hand I could say tobacco. Is more deadly let's ban that.

(Well I did say let's ban it. Those are my reasons)
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

 

Well the homicide does not include manslaughter, but then again people rarely shot at another person by accident or without intent to kill.

 

NGAD: An Unofficial Tally

NGAD: An Unofficial Tally

David Waldman, for Daily Kos:

This won't require a lot of explanation. I decided to count as many incidents as I could of firearms being discharged on "Gun Appreciation Day," and what happened as a result. After hearing the news of five woundings in separate accidental shootings at three different gun shows during the day, I got curious about how many other incidents, both intentional and unintentional, might have happened during the day.

I'm sure that my list is not comprehensive. All I did was search Google news. Still, I came up with a list of 92 separate incidents in 34 states and the District of Columbia, killing a total of 34 people and wounding 65 more ....

.... For the purposes of this list, I have defined gun "incidents" as those in which there was a discharge, intentional or otherwise. There is one exception on the list: an incident in Las Vegas, NV in which an elected state representative brandished a gun and threatened to shoot the Speaker-elect of the Nevada state legislature.​

The list also includes a pitbull shot by police officers in Boston, and links to a story about Sanford, Florida, in which police responded to six shooting incidents on Saturday and early Sunday. Nobody was killed or injured in the Sanford spree.

To the other, Chicago saw five wounded in five separate shootings, and the horrific slaying in Albuquerque counts five dead in a single incident. Meanwhile, Arkansas saw four wounded in two separate incidents, and a town in Kentucky saw two ridiculous incidents in which a teenager accidentally shot a friend, and another man was allegedly shot by his brother for reasons not disclosed.

Waldman lists all ninety-two incidents he found, and, well, it's a pretty morbid sight.

I wonder what next year's National Gun Appreciation Day will bring.
____________________

Notes:

Waldman, David. "Gun Appreciation Day shootings". Daily Kos. January 21, 2013. DailyKos.com. January 22, 2013. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/21/1180685/-Gun-Appreciation-Day-shootings

 

As a glance to Tiassa's list will show, that is not so. Guns set the stage for screwup and slapstick mishap as often as malevolence and lethal intent. They attract idiotic behavior at a level comparable to bonfires and dirt bikes.

I recall once seeing a list of events in which people had been shot by their dogs - presumably by accident - anyone recall seeing that around lately?

Once again, the wrongfoot argument.

Americans often do their violence by gun, which makes sense in a place with so many around - they're ready to hand. Other people - say in Russia, or Rwanda - choose other means. So?

We live in a country where almost no one dies of appendicitis, few die of pregnancy or rabies or malaria or the like, etc. Our roads are well lit and repaired, our cars padded and bagged and belted and controlled for speed. When we have all lost weight and quit smoking and jogged regularly and become so safe in general that specifically gun violence is the top cause of death, we'll be living to 120 and shooting ourselves.

 

There have been talk about bolt action rifles. One was fired a while back. The bolt action killed a POTUS. And there still used. Look up Lee H. Oswald.
This quote I know of, I will add.

 

Mcclxxx

One Thousand Two Hundred Eighty

Jason Cherkis explains that number for The Huffington Post:

Through Google and Nexis searches, The Huffington Post has tracked gun-related homicides and accidents throughout the U.S. since the schoolhouse massacre in Newtown, Conn., on the morning of Dec. 14. There were more than 100 such deaths the first week after the school shooting. In the first seven weeks after Newtown, there have been more than 1,280 gunshot homicides and accidental deaths. Slate has counted 1,475 fatal shooting incidents since Newtown, including suicides and police-involved shooting deaths, which The Huffington Post did not include in its tally.​

Freedom has a price, and this is one that many are prepared to pay—especially if other people pay the toll for them.
____________________

Notes:

Cherkis, Jason. "U.S. Gun Deaths Since Sandy Hook Top 1,280". The Huffington Post. February 1, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. February 1, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/us-gun-deaths-sandy-hook_n_2602074.html