So MTV edited out Eminem being a bitch...

They can't just tell you to like something and you like it. It has to be appealing to a large amount of people. No matter what record companies say or how influential you think they are, there are hundreds of bands out there that they could never get a large group of people to like. It's not like they can say, "Oh hey, Diet of Worms (or hundres of other bands) is tons cooler than Britney Spears and Eminem" and all of the sudden they are more populary than them. No matter how much you play them on the radio they are always going to suck. Sure they will get a larger fan base of course, that is what advertising does. And they will have more fans that other bands of equal shittyness. But they will never be on the Top 10.

Most bands I come across that aren't well known, aren't all that great. Occasionally I come across unknown bands that I like a ton, like Pig, Funker Vogt, Halo In Reverse, Assemblage 23 etc.. Which I like much much more than the songs I hear on the radio. But... the radio is trying to target the main crowd and Im not apart of that crowd. So I don't like radio.

Personally I think the fact that you think the record companies have more control than they really do, is because a lot of people don't realize that what is on MTV or the Radio isn't the best music, just the most popular music. And that it's not the only good music out there, just the only advertised music out there. There is a "best for the majority of tastes" and a "best for your taste". But there is no "best". And I alot of people don't realize that. And once they catch on they overexaggerate it and sometimes will even act like we are all brainwashed or something.

Kinda like those punks you see always talking about sell outs and corporate labels. They let it go to there heads, they see so many people ignoring things that have come to there attention, that they naturally overexaggerate it to try and get the point across. But they end up just looking goofy and childish. Or even Eminem. He does the same thing. He sees a flaw in America and overexaggerates it.

 

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When the Wall of Denial comes tumblin' down

Read the payola links again.

Denial, good Saith is not just a river in Egypt.

thanx,
Tiassa

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Uhh ya, like Moby talking shit about everything that Eminem comes out with. Dissing him on MTV.

Those could be a few reasons.

 

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"They can't just tell you to like something and you like it. It has to be appealing to a large amount of people. No matter what record companies say or how influential you think they are, there are hundreds of bands out there that they could never get a large group of people to like"

As I recall, New Kids on the Block was just some random kids that a record company pulled together and got everyone to like.

 

Lol. Ok if you really think that any band in the world can become popular if the record companies says so, fine with me.

Random? What they rolled some dice? Im sure they put thought into it. It's not like they would pull some homeless people of the street and give them harmonicas and say they are cool and everyone believes them and starts buying there albums.

Record companies do try to look at the majority of peoples interests, not just completely invent them. You're not ever going to turn on your radio and hear Ariah every 30 minutes on 3 different stations.

 

Ah, I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure NKOTB was just some kids that the company found that they figured were good looking enough that they made into a band. The members were friends and their eventual producer saw them all and created a band out of them by giving them a name, having writers write their songs, musicians play the instruments and, rumour has it, singers sing their songs.

 

i doubt that they (at least not all) of them had someone sing for them.. otherwise they would not have gone on later to have other careers as singers.. im not sure... but i think one or two of the members of LFO were members of NKOTB.

 

From the Austin-American Statesman

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Eminem, being tough.

From NME

Hmm ... sounds like he's threatening terrorism to me. Assassination, specifically

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Man, Eminem really is afraid of real musicians.

thanx,
Tiassa

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*Xev grins and remembers something*
Marilyn Manson Now Going Door-To-Door Trying To Shock People

Methinks that these antics give Eminem and his sort too much attention. In that vein....back to reading "Merrick" and blowing things up on the computer!

 

Xev, thanks for the link, that onion article was pretty funny

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Since when has Moby ever been a real musician.

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I find it strange, that people are attacking Eminem for defending himself against what was said about him. Last time I checked, Moby started this feud, not Eminem.

 

What did Moby do to start this battle? I never heard, sorry.

tiassa, I like listening to Eminem. I'm 18. From your posts, I would guess that you are the elder. I like the rhythms and sounds of his loops and I think he's got a great knack for rapping. Sorry if you don't like him, but the majority of the youth, who make up the majority of "pop" radio station listeners, do.

 

I like the rhythms and sounds of his loops and I think he's got a great knack for rapping. Sorry if you don't like him, but the majority of the youth, who make up the majority of "pop" radio station listeners, do.

Of course, if the majority of youth were able to recognize talent, they would never listen to "rap" or "pop" music.

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NEW YORK (Top 40 Charts) - Wondering why Eminem singles out 'NSync 's Chris Kirkpatrick and Moby in his new song, "Without Me," from his forthcoming The Eminem Show?
The rapper told MTV's Total Request Live on Thursday (May 2) during the premiere of the video that it's because Kirkpatrick was the only boy band member who had the guts to say something back to him, after the rapper attacked the group and boy bands in general on his last album.

On why he attacks Moby in the song and video, Em sarcastically told TRL that he liked Moby, but feels bad that no one else does. The Moby attack is an obvious retaliation to the techno king's comments following the 2001 GRAMMY® Awards when he said the rapper was "very clever, but he's also a misogynist, a homophobe, a racist, and an anti-Semite".

http://top40-charts.com/news.php?nid=2764&string=Moby

 

im reading this thread and just had to say a few things:
first of all moby started this whole thing..static76 said it right, moby said on mtv about Eminem that he was a racist and all those things static76 said. (which is really so stupid to say because you can say many things about Eminem, but not that hes a racist, so obviously moby started talking shit while he didnt know what he was talking about). Then Eminem mentioned Moby in his song. Moby responded back saying that if Hailie (the 6 year old daughter of Eminem) would ever date a guy that would abuse her, it would be Eminems fault, because Eminem said this was ok. I guess this really pissed Em off, because his daughter means everything to him.

What kinda bothered me in this thread is that some people pretended that its so easy to make a cd like Eminem, just whine a bit and put some beats under it..well if you dont like his music, thats fine by me, everyone his or her taste, but you cant say he doesnt got any talent because he got great rhyming talents, try to make a rhyme like him which flows as his rhymes do, and see what i mean..

 

but you cant say he doesnt got any talent because he got great rhyming talents, try to make a rhyme like him which flows as his rhymes do, and see what i mean..

You mean like this:

Album: Slim Shady EP Song: Low, Down, Dirty
Warning, this shit's gon be rated R, restricted
You see this bullet hole in my neck? It's self inflicted
Doctor slapped my momma, "Bitch you got a sick kid"
Arrested, molested myself and got convicted
Wearing visors, sunglasses and disguises
Cause my split personality is having an identity crisis
I'm Dr. Hyde and Mr. Jekyll, disrespectful
Hearing voices in my head while these whispers echo
"Murder Murder Redrum"
Brain size of a bread crumb
Which drug will I end up dead from
Inebriated, till my stress is eleviated
"How in the fuck can Eminem and shady be related?"
Illiterate, illigitimate shit spitter
Bitch getter, hid in the bush like Margot Kidder
Jumped out (Ahhhh!) killed the bitch and did her
Use to let the babysitter suck my dick when I was little'er
Smoke a blunt while I'm titty fuckin Bette Midler
Sniper, waiting on your roof like the Fiddler
Y'all thought I was gonna rhyme with Riddler
Didn't Ya? Bring your bitch I wanna see if this dick gon' fit in her
[E] I'm low down and I'm shiftee!
"And if you hear a man that sounds like me smack him
and ask him where the fuck did he get his damn raps from.."
I lace tunes, I'm out this world like Space Moons
With a bunch crazed loons dismissin brains like braze wounds
Nothing but idiots and misfits, dipshits
Doing whippits, passed out like Sanford snippits
Where's the weed, I wanna tamper with it
I'ma let your grandpa hit it
Mix it up with cocaine so her can't forget it
Fuck it, maybe I'm a bum
But I was put on this earth to make your baby mama cum
So what I'm on is way beyond the bomb or any alcoholic beverage
Losing all of my leverage
Went up inside the First National Bank broke, and left rich
Walking bio-hazard causing wreckage
Smoked out like Eckridge
Band just making my neck itch
What the fuck? Gimme the tech bitch
You just lost your tip, there's a pubic hair in my breakfast
Got shit popping off like bottle cap tips
Get your cap peeled like the dead skin of your mama's chapped lips
Slap hips, support domestic violence
Beat your bitches ass while your kids stare in silence
I'm just joking, is Dirty Dozen's really dust smoking?
If all your shit's missing, than probably one of us broke in
Chorus
My head's ringing, like it was Spider Sense tingling
Lit it like Green Bay did when they shitted on New England
I'm out the game, put the second string in
This Brandy got my swinging
Bobbing back and forth like a penguin
Delinquent, toking microphones with Broken English
Make your mama be like "Ohh! This is good! Who sing this?"
"Slim Shady, his tape is dope, I love it
It's rugged, but he needs to quit talking all that drug shit."
It was predicted by a medic
I'd grow to be an addicted diabetic
Living off liquid Triametic
Pathetic, but I don't think this headache's ever vanishing
Panicing, I think I might have just took too much Anasin
Frozen Manaquin, posted stiffer than a statue
I think I'm dying, God is that you?
Somebody help me, before I OD on an LP
Take me to ER ASAP for and IV
Motherfuck JLB, they don't support no hip hop
They say that's where it ends, the closest they gon come is Tupac
It's politics, it's all a fix
Setup by these white blue collared hicks
Just to make a dollar off of black music
With a subliminal ball of tricks
But those can kiss ass and swallow dicks

Oh yeah, this is quality writing.

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^^^yep now can you rhyme like that??.. or try to rap with it with the song, you'll see it aint so easy, the song low down dirty that you just posted is very old, its a song from before he was a famous rapper, he grew lyrically, at least thats my opinion, some people think his best times were with his infinite album though (which was his first album before he got famous), anyways here is a part of a song from his new album which i like a lot (the song White America from the eminem show), and you will see he got real good rhyming skills:
[Eminem]
Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself
If they were brown Shady lose, Shady sits on the shelf
But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help
Make ladies swoon baby (ooh baby!) Look at my sales
Let's do the math - if I was black, I woulda sold half
I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that
But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back
Gimme the mic, show me where the fuckin studio's at
When I was underground, no one gave a fuck I was white
No labels wanted to sign me, almost gave up I was like
Fuck it - until I met Dre, the only one to look past
Gave me a chance and I lit a FIRE up under his ass
Helped him get back to the top, every fan black that I got
was probably his in exchange for every white fan that he's got
Like damn; we just swapped - sittin back lookin at shit, wow
I'm like my skin is it startin to work to my benefit now? It's..

[Chorus]
White America! I could be one of your kids
White America! Little Eric looks just like this
White America! Erica loves my shit
I go to TRL; look how many hugs I get!

[Eminem]
See the problem is, I speak to suburban kids
who otherwise woulda never knew these words exist
Whose moms probably woulda never gave two squirts of piss
'til I created so much motherfuckin turbulence!
Straight out the tube, right into your living rooms I came
And kids flipped, when they knew I was produced by Dre
That's all it took, and they were instantly hooked right in
And they connected with me too because I looked like them
That's why they put my lyrics up under this microscope
Searchin with a fine tooth comb, it's like this rope
waitin to choke; tightenin around my throat
Watchin me while I write this, like I don't like this (Nope!)
All I hear is: lyrics, lyrics, constant controversy, sponsors working
round the clock to try to stop my concerts early, surely
Hip-Hop was never a problem in Harlem only in Boston
After it bothered the fathers of daughters startin to blossom
So now I'm catchin the flack from these activists when they raggin
Actin like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch or say faggot, shit!
Just look at me like I'm your closest pal
The posterchild, the motherfuckin spokesman now for..
(chorus: ) white america!....

i think its personal if you dont like what he raps about..me personally dont like the always happyhappyhappy songs which has no real meaning..im not trying to convince anyone to listen to Eminem or to like what he says, but just want to point out he does got talents..

 

and you will see he got real good rhyming skills

Anyone can rhyme, if you got the time, and it don't mean shit, if you're not a half-wit.

"Rhyming skills" have nothing to do with quality writing.

im not trying to convince anyone to listen to Eminem or to like what he says, but just want to point out he does got talents.

Judging by his lyrics, his main talent is talking much while saying very little. You could sum up the entire song:

I am a white rapper making lots of money, screw you.

 

Sorry for.. not contributing to discussion, etc, but...

In that pic posted up there ... who's with Eminem?

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Terribly inefficient

Static76

If Eminem doesn't like being characterized as misogynist, anti-Semitic, or racist, perhaps he shouldn't spend so much time bitching and whining about other people. If Eminem thinks an abusive mate is suitable for his daughter, I question the value of everything in his world.

But if Eminem has to resort to threats in order to defend his credibility, we see what he has left in the tank. The VMA stunt was a terribly inefficient effort on Marshall's part.

Well, unlike Eminem, he can make his own albums, he can play his own instruments, and he knows what music is, as opposed to machismo hype. I'm not the biggest Moby fan by any means; I don't even own a Moby album. But he's definitively the better musician of the two.

Phrenetic

Well, that's their problem. Given the fact that they're just responding to record companies telling them what they like, we see the problem with pop radio listeners. Perhaps at 18 being a professional bitch like Eminem seems a good use of studio resources, but at 29, I just want someone onstage who can play.

The problem I have with a "great knack for rapping" is that it reminds me of Vanilla Ice, who is infamous for saying things like, "Rap is the hardest music to write because you have to make the words rhyme."

He's white and he has "a great knack for rapping". This does not make him the Beastie Boys, and he ought to try something more substantive than imitation. But part of this ties in with someone else's comments:

Justme

Making any album is generally tough. Admittedly, Nirvana's Bleach was a one-day album but you can tell it's possible by listening to it. But turn on a drum machine--now you don't need actual drumming rhythm, it's already there for you. Turn on a sample loop--now you don't need actual musical instruments. Compared to a My Bloody Valentine or a Radiohead or a Beach Boys or a Gorillaz, Eminem's production quality is midget. I have yet to hear an Eminem track that impresses me, lyrically, intellectually, or musically. Take a listen around to other professional bitches in the game. Eminem is one of the cheapest. You're welcome to list the "best" Eminem track you know of as far as production goes. I'll be happy to download it from Limewire or Acquisition and listen to it until my ears bleed, and then I'll be happy to tell you what I think of its production.

I mean, technically, Tiffany's debut album was not easy in a very similar way that Eminem's album was not easy. It takes a lot of work to compile an album. But the presence of an album does not a musician make.

In General

Seriously, think of it this way: If Moby had threatened Eminem, everybody would be shocked at the crass behavior. With Eminem, such lack of civility is what we've come to expect.

I don't care if people want to idolize it. That's their problem. However, when an issue of musical pride (being an Eminem fan) creates problems for people realizing that the man is a menacing, threatening boor, well? I mean, come on--if it had nothing to do with Eminem, if it was Thom Yorke or Bobby Gillespie or some such, people wouldn't be saying, "But ____ called their music what it is" as a defense for threats and harassment. Frankly, what's scariest about Eminem is his fans. They're dumb enough to buy it, but that's a matter of taste. However, it also seems they're dumb enough to defend threats of violence. What's the matter? Eminem can criticize other people in his music but he has to threaten someone who points out the obvious about his music?

I mean, seriously--Eminem must be scared of real musicians.

If he had what it took to prove his point in the studio, he would. But he doesn't, so he behaves like a child. So appealing to children, I guess; what are you gonna do? Oh, that's right--spend more money buying even more of his stuff.

What's funny is that in the beginning, all I ever had against Eminem was a house joke because one of our friends was on a fashion tear that happened to coincide with the release of Slim Shady; for weeks it was not uncommon to have some slobbering Eminem fan actually think this guy was Marshall. Maybe it seems strange to me since I'm of the internet generation that's capable of looking up my favorite musicians' tour and appearance schedules, but on days when Eminem is known to be on the opposite coast? Come on .... Really, all I ever had against Eminem in the beginning was a private house joke about a friend's haircut.

And then I listened to the music. It's not horrible, Even "bad" is my own sense of opinion. But it's a cheap, overblown pop performance. He's a closet diva in his own mind. Can he evolve? Or will the next album be more of the same?

He's not a musician, he's a performer. Like Whitney Houston, for instance. She may have a better voice that Rufus Wainwright, but at least Rufus could remember the goddamn lyrics to Somewhere Over the Rainbow.

As a last note: Smile is coming in the next few years. Perhaps even earlier than that. Brian Wilson, of the Beach Boys, has promised to give us that album at some point. Those who remember the studio release of Smiley-Smile will be pleased that they finally get the real album. But it's 35 years later, and the labor of love is not yet complete.

Here's the thing: When it comes out, the general consensus is that it will still be decades ahead of contemporary pop music.

So I won't be kind to the "effort" of making one of Marshall's albums. Just like I'm not kind to the "effort" of any manufactured album. In the annals of recording history are a bunch of guys who people just don't know about who have done all the real work to make it possible for dumb-assed albums like Eminem's to even be made. I prefer to honor their talents instead. Professional bitching is not a talent, or else I could be making a fortune on this topic alone. As long as I'm looking at talent issues, I might as well stand with the talented ones.

Really: talent isn't a defense. Effort isn't a defense. A "knack for rapping" isn't a defense. If Eminem had any talent, he would crush Moby with talent, and not reduce himself even more with threats. Seriously: Lennon recorded "Serve Yourself" allegedly as a response to Dylan. People do it. "Serve Yourself" is one of the coolest songs ever written. Of course, I also have a demo version of it with incomplete lyrics, so I get to be in on a couple of jokes that makes the song that much more fun. But Lennon didn't have to threaten Dylan when something Bob did bugged him. He just wrote a damn good song and everybody knew the score when they heard it.

You would think that if Eminem had any talent or common sense, he would be able to step up his game and show his superiority to Moby.

thanx,
Tiassa

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