Should men have a say in abortion ?

The usual position taken by the anti-abortion crowd (and I suppose by you and Musika) is that from the moment of conception the unborn foetus should be treated essentially like an adult human being (or at least as a child who has been born) when it comes to the "right" to life. Moreover, you hold that as soon as this right to life accrues in the foetus, thereafter the desires of the mother are irrelevant.
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The Pro-Life crowd hold that human life is worth saving, more so that just starting life. So, yes, you are correct. We believe human life has a right to exist, even when it exists within the womb of its mother.

Moreover, you hold that it is therefore acceptable for the state to force the mother to carry the unborn child to term and to birth it, thus abrogating the mother's rights to bodily autonomy to decision makers who have no intention of taking responsibility for the resulting child. Or, to put it in a nutshell, you think it's appropriate to remove choice from the mother and to control her using the full apparatus of the state, including such apparatus as throwing her and/or her doctor in jail for 100 years if she doesn't comply.
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I would be fine if we could eliminate state sponsorship of abortion. But I believe an argument can be made that the state has a duty to protect the lives and rights of everyone. Hence we have the Pro-Choice people taking the position that the unborn is not actually human, or refer to a fetus as merely cells. It's easier to take away the rights of another and easier to destroy life if you take away its humanity.

If I've missed anything, let me know.
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Yes, is your life worth the inconvenience it caused your mother?


Also, I take it you're not going to respond to any of the questions I've put to you. Is that correct?
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My apologies. I'm losing interest in this thread. It's a waste of time when I could be doing something about the issue of abortion. Don't you agree?
 
Again, he's losing interest. Does that mean the other member of the tag-team has got his second wind?
The pro-life position, on paper is: all human life is worth saving, sight unseen, circumstances unknown, consequences uncalculated - as pure potential.

except the lives of poor people, sick people, old people, soldiers, women, migrants, designated enemies, unlucky civilians in the vicinity of designated enemies, unlucky civilians in range of crazed gunmen and random black youth walking down streets
but that's a different category of human life that no government on earth could possibly save, no matter how hard they try to not save them
so anybody who mentions them is changing the subject to unreasonable eutopianism

because in a reasonable right-to-life eutopia, all women would want to carry all pregnancies to term
without the community making any accommodation or provision for the resultant babies
because making n effort to do that
would be an unreasonable pro-choicer's eutopia

clear now?
 
Jeeves said:
except the lives of poor people, sick people, old people, soldiers, women, migrants, designated enemies, unlucky civilians in the vicinity of designated enemies, unlucky civilians in range of crazed gunmen and random black youth walking down streets
but that's a different category of human life that no government on earth could possibly save, no matter how hard they try to not save them
so anybody who mentions them is changing the subject to unreasonable eutopianism
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No government can save you, Jeeves.
 
spidergoat said:
No, you believe patriarchy has a right to exist. You believe abortion is an effective wedge issue to get Christian Nationalism started.
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I think every woman is a goddess. I think life is worth living.

We can make a long list of everything that's wrong with life, and probably a short list of everything that's right with life. Still, that short list outweighs the long list by far. Wouldn't you agree?
 
Beer w/Straw said:
You say that so long as you can control them.
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lol Yep ^^

This discussion/debate makes me sad, yet enlightened to the fact that there are a lot of sexist men in the world. I want to believe that there aren't so many, but there are. :(
 
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Bowser said:
No government can save you, Jeeves.
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Exactly!
That's the third or fourth time one of you has shoved your own support of oppressive legislation and bad social policy off on "government", which, according to you, can't accomplish anything. Yet you demand that that same government protect the poor widdle unborn livisises threatened by big bad women. ET correct: big bad goddesses.
I don't need saving; you do.
 
Beer w/Straw said:
You say that so long as you can control them.
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Control. There have been over 45,000,000 million abortions in the U.S. If I were in control, there would be an additional 45,000,000+ potentially cool people in this world. Because of our lack of control, there were 45,000,000+ people we will never know. Have we lost control, Beer?
 
It’s weird. I wasn’t active on here for a while, and now that I’m posting again...I see that the site has a resident sexist. Feels the need to post vulgar, trashy songs that degrade women, disrespects women by asking them if they find men sexually attractive and supports Trump.

It’s not just this thread, but what I’ve observed since returning that tells me many pro-lifers are of this mindset - a solely sexualized view of women. I’ve dated sexist guys and they all think alike. They don’t see a man as needing to have responsibility in keeping unwanted births under control, that’s a woman’s job. I mean, how else did 45 million abortions happen if men were doing their part in using a condom? But when a woman finds herself pregnant, these same types of sexist men think they should control what happens after that. Seriously?

I must live in a bubble. Maybe I’m just fortunate to know good men who don’t feel the need to mansplain and degrade women. Hmm.
 
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wegs said:
I must live in a bubble. Maybe I’m just fortunate to know good men who don’t feel the need to mansplain and degrade women. Hmm.
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I don't hold any resentment towards you for being a woman. :)
 
Bowser said:
There have been over 45,000,000 million abortions in the U.S. If I were in control, there would be an additional 45,000,000+ potentially cool people in this world.
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Your math is off. Some of the babies would have died anyway because they didn't get proper pre-natal care. Many of the survivors would be condemned to a childhood of poverty and likely abuse, leading to premature death by unnatural causes. Many of them would be not so "cool". Some of the women would die from botched back-alley abortions. Some would commit suicide because they didn't know how else to cope. And on and on....
 
sideshowbob said:
Your math is off. Some of the babies would have died anyway because they didn't get proper pre-natal care. Many of the survivors would be condemned to a childhood of poverty and likely abuse, leading to premature death by unnatural causes. Many of them would be not so "cool". Some of the women would die from botched back-alley abortions. Some would commit suicide because they didn't know how else to cope. And on and on....
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That certainly was a possibility, but as it turns out, not one of them had a chance, each one a guaranteed tragedy. Does that math make you feel better, bob?
 
Going for a haircut, a carton of smokes, and whatever else. Nice being with you.
 
Bowser said:
Going for a haircut, a carton of smokes, and whatever else. Nice being with you.
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You care about human life, but smoke? This thread is getting funny. *crylaugh emoji*

Imagine if the government banned cigarettes. You know, because it would save more lives.

In before “but...that’s different!”

;)
 
Bowser said:
Control. There have been over 45,000,000 million abortions in the U.S. If I were in control, there would be an additional 45,000,000+ potentially cool people in this world. Because of our lack of control, there were 45,000,000+ people we will never know. Have we lost control, Beer?
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Sounds like a lot more pain, suffering, overcrowding, hunger and starvation in your world.
 
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