Should intellectual Dishonest be more strictly moderated?

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Kittamaru, Aug 17, 2015.

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Should Intellectual Dishonesty be more strictly moderated/punished?

  1. Yes

    69.6%
  2. No

    17.4%
  3. Other

    13.0%
  4. I dont' care

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    Hm, I dare say you are either illiterate, or attempting to troll... how droll.

    Allow me to open your eyes.

    MR Posted:
    A little context: In several previous threads, MR has taken to simply IGNORING evidence that stands in opposition to his position; be this because he knows he cannot sufficiently explain it or otherwise, he has ignored it. (as a recent example - the bigfoot thread, and his refusal to answer for how the creature could possibly procreate given the lack of genetic diversity)

    I replied:
    MR's reply:

    Now, he is entitled to his opinion; however, just as in the criminal justice system, your opinion on the ruling does not, by itself, excuse yourself from said ruling.

    Then you come along and claim
    and
    So, again I say - point out where I have misrepresented what MR is saying.
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    To the OP: yes.
    But we should try to avoid threads just devolving into accusation of such followed by denial / counter accusation, ultimately to the detriment of the thread in question.

    Anyone can be guilty of inadvertently misquoting, or misrepresenting (e.g. when they have simply misunderstood), or cherry-picking which points to counter (deeming the others to be not pertinent) - but it is when such continues after being pointed out, without satisfaction given, that the dishonesty must be taken as being deliberate, and thus to be moderated (if that is the route opted for).

    But ideally once the misquote, the misrepresentation, the failure to address certain points etc, is highlighted (hopefully in a non-accusatory way - although I am oft guilty of that), the person will apologise for such and make redress, or explain why they did such as they did, hopefully to the satisfaction of all. And we can all move on in the spirit of friendship, harmony, family, blah blah blah.

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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    That's an accusation that needs evidence to back it up. Where have I ignored or failed to address any evidence in opposition to my position? Hmmm....are we misrepresenting posters for the sake of infracting them again?
     
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  7. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    The evidence is already there, but I shall provide more, just for giggles n shits:

    You never replied.

    You hand-waved this away as "absurd"
    You refused to answer Deacon's question several times, instead claiming:
    So, there are three examples from ONE thread... do I need to continue? There are plenty of examples from when you went on your anti-vaxx tirade...

    Ignoring evidence because you dislike the test premise (despite it being scientifically valid)

    There was the entire debacle where you stated photos were acceptable evidence for the existence of bigfoot, then refused to accept photos and even video evidence as proof of the existence of Unicorns... quite a double standard.

    Then there was your refusal to accept that insects on camera lenses can cause false-reports of ghosts.
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/ghost-caught-on-dover-castle-cctv.142633/

    The list goes on... but I feel pretty secure that, for any rational, reasonable, self-thinking individual, the evidence presented here is sufficient.
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    So which of those were evidence, and which of those that were evidence did I fail to address or ignore?
    You do understand the difference between discounting evidence and ignoring it don't you? Something done on an almost daily basis with the evidence I post in the GMU thread.
     
  9. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    Hand-waving it away is not "discounting" it... if you want to discount evidence, you have to show WHY it is inadmissible. You do understand that, right?
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    So again, where have I "ignored" evidence? Remember what evidence is. It's not an argument or a point someone made. It's physical or anecdotal evidence of something. Where have I ignored any of that?
     
  11. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    Now you are redefining the term Evidence... okay, I'll play along, why not.

    Biologically speaking, there MUST be a certain degree of genetic separation between breeding partners over generations to ensure the species is viable. I have brought this point up SEVERAL times regarding BigFoot - how can something with so low a number of breeding stock POSSIBLY continue to reproduce?

    You have not seen fit to provide an answer to this.
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    That's not evidence. That's an objection. To which I will respond, how can the lions, whose population is down to around 400 in the West African nations, possibly continue to reproduce too?
     
  13. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    http://www.largecarnivoresafrica.com/lion/

    http://www.the-eis.com/searchresults.php?action=moreinfo&id=8896
    http://www.ted.com/conversations/11885/do_zoos_help_biodiversity_cons.html
    http://www.largecarnivoresafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/Genetic-diversity-evolutionary-history.pdf
    They can continue to reproduce despite this erosion - however:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_erosion
    Simply put, reduced genetic diversity increases the risk of a single disease wiping them out. If allowed to continue unchecked, it can result in animals simply incapable of reproducing at all.
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    So why couldn't Bigfoot continue to reproduce in the same way?
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,126
    He has!
    ==============================
    USA: Woman Claims Daughter is Half-Sasquatch
    February 21st, 2014 | by Bob Flanagan

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    Colorado| Barbara Smithson, an elementary school teacher from the small town of Wilford, claims that her newborn baby is actually the fruit of a strange sexual intercourse she had with a sasquatch during a trip in the Rockies last summer.
    «It was a really unique experience» explains the 29-year old woman. «You know, I’ve been single for quite some time, so when I met this nice, gentle, an cuddly male… it was hard to say “no”. It was an unforgettable night… I just really didn’t expect to get pregnant! Now I have little Stacy here with me, and she’s healthy. She’s a bit hairy, but look how cute she is! She’s just so adorable. I will certainly try to introduce her to her father, but I don’t wanna put to much hope in the fact that he could be as excited as I am.»
    ==================================
     
  16. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    Simple - the smaller the population, the more rapidly the degradation occurs. With hundreds of lions, it is occurring over generations. With, what, a few dozen bigfoot?... it would occur much faster:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_population

    With the Lions, humanity is stepping in to attempt to increase diversity (artificial insemination, reservations, etc). Is the same being done for Bigfoot?
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    The Bigfoot Researchers Organization estimates that there are 2,000-6,000 Bigfoots in North America.
    That's within the MVP of any given species.

    "An MVP of 500 to 1,000 has often been given as an average for terrestrial vertebrates when inbreeding or genetic variability is ignored.[3][4] When inbreeding effects are included, estimates of MVP for many species are in the thousands. Based on a meta-analysis of reported values in the literature for many species, Traill et al.reported a median MVP of 4,169 individuals."
     
  18. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    So, what you are telling me is... we can find and track a species of Grizzly Bears with a population under 200, the Californian Condor just over 100), and the Amur Leopard (population under 40)... yet we cannot find a population of super-sized ape-hominids numbering almost a thousand?

    That seems incredibly unlikely... you do realize that, right?
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    If the species is nocturnal and intelligent, having honed for thousands of years the art of concealment, such is well explained.
     
  20. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,864
    And yet we can quite readily find people using FLIR and Thermal Imaging... yet BigFoot is able to evade these technologies? At this point, BigFoot should have simply taken over as the dominant species, if they are as advanced as you seem to think.

    Let me put it another way:

    We are able to get "pictures of advanced technology crafts from super advanced civilizations capable of interstellar travel", yet we cannot manage to get a good quality image, nor find the body of, an ape-man with the technological equivalent of a cro-magnum?
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    Who said there's no good quality pics/videos of Bigfoot? The internet's full of them.
     
  22. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,069
    Well, than post one, I guess.
     
  23. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,449
    Here is a video I found.

    See, I knew it was real!
     
    Beer w/Straw likes this.

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