Should Freedom of Religion include Freedom from Religion?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Goldtop, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, so it's a like a quick prayer and then move on? That wouldn't be loitering, but if the person was going to be there some time, maybe it could be considered loitering. I would have to ask why the person can't pray at home?
     
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  3. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    If churches don't pay property taxes, municipalities won't receive as much income, so they will get what they need from me.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That would be protected by freedom of speech. It's tax exempt status of churches that is a problem as well of religion in public places (prayer in public schools, prayer in Congress, swearing on the Bible in court, etc. that is a problem.).
     
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  7. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Sure - but even then, there comes a point when he's disturbing the peace. No preaching, except in designated areas.
    And that's entirely different from creches and 10-commandment plaques on the courthouse lawn. The courthouse, administrative buildings and police stations are official places that are intended to carry on the functions of government. Their partiality to one religion is a tacit government endorsement, which is a step toward official enforcement of the tenets of one faith over all the others.
    And that's not an accident on the part of officials who insist of putting Christian symbols in those prominent places.
     
  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's a point of view. I doubt your local government calculates its income in such a manner that it is figuring lost income due to church property values.
     
  9. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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  10. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    I suppose praying in public might be considered free speech, but again, I ask why not do it at home? Isn't the concept of believing in God a personal thing? Why bring it into the public, then?
     
  11. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    And I don't believe having a giant menorah on the White House lawn is necessarily crossing the line between simple recognition and collusion with the synagogue.

    There is a reason...

     
  12. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    In Israel, no. Anywhere else, yes.
    That goes for every citizen and every business. And yet they are taxed, and yet they are not destroyed.
    And yet the various state and municipal governments have been able to find other ways to make life difficult for denominations they don't like. The current federal government can do it with immigration la... er... presidential.. er.. royal edict.
    The tax exemption was a concession, an appeasement to the Anglicans that had to be extended to all the other Christian churches, and then to the less popular ones, and then to all the new ones that were invented as a tax dodge. And the longer it goes on, the wronger (and more profitable) it grows.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Yet as a smoker, I can tell you that taxation does affect your choices. At the very least it can punish you for making your own choice.

    That's true, and it's a shame. I think zoning laws might be the most popular way of thwarting a religious group.

    The government doesn't punish people and businesses with taxes?

    I will give that some research and get back to you.

    It extends to all religions, not just churches. You tell me, would it be better to have the government's finger on religion, or off religion. I think taxation is a very effective tool in subverting anything in society. The less government involvement, the better.
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    My free speech is thwarted in my own house since I have to pay property taxes in order to remain there.

    Is my ability to believe in non-sense even more important than free speech.
     
  15. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    If they were raised so much that I couldn't afford to stay in my house. Obviously, I could still be a homeless person and say whatever I wanted to. People can pray whenever they want to as well regardless of how much their church was taxed.

    They should be taxed just like everyone else.
     
  17. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    But could they function the same as an organization had their property been seized by way of taxation?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree and believe that the "Establishment Clause" addresses this, but in practice seems to favor Religious rights vs Secular rights.
     
  19. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    It supposed to represent the secular aspects of society ie not to dabble in the hocus pocus magic of religion

    Unfortunately to many politicians are only to happy to parade their hocus pocus credentials to garner votes from those who share the politicians particular religious fantasy and by extension want the said politician to be involved in secular laws to mirror the religious beliefs

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  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    They can pay their taxes just like anybody else. The organization shouldn't really have special protections. The organization isn't the religion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  21. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    You can't prey while walking?
    I understand there are now some places where you can't text while walking, with particular attention to crossing the road

    Next case me Lord prey while crossing the road when the walking legs had turned red

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  22. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, such credentials can be misused. But even a Democrat will vote for a candidate who parrots their values.
     
  23. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Of course the credentials ARE misused

    The disease affects all flavours of politics and leaves a bitter taste (hypocrisy has a very bitter taste)

    While trying, in Australian politics here, to give some politicians the benefit of doubt, that they are acting in the interest of voters, it is becoming a acting part for me to do so

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