Should animals be treated as property?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by hug-a-tree, Sep 23, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kenworth dude...**** it,lets go bowling Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,034
    pandas should be destroyed,without a doubt the shittiest species in existence.

    and yes,animals should be treated as property.i dont think horses,cats,dogs,hamsters etc mind at all.

    i am against battery farming but as for free range meat production i think the animals have a pretty good life up until they are chopped.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. hug-a-tree Live the life Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    673
    If we treated humans this way, it would be considered wrong.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. kenworth dude...**** it,lets go bowling Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,034
    what,if we provided a group of humans with comfortable living conditions,adequate sustinance,beautiful views and then killed and ate them when they were 35?
    yes,that would be considered wrong.whats your point?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. hug-a-tree Live the life Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    673
    That was my only point but I guess it's not enough for you and some people.
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    Pets should be considered property, because then we can hold the owners responsible for their misdeeds.
     
  9. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,721
    I gotta admit, I still feel guilty about getting my dogs nuts chopped off. He was humping everyone's leg and acting crazy though. I personally could not get him trained. His prior masters obviously abused him though(as he cringes if you even suddenly raise your hand for any reason like stretch).

    After they were gone, he calmed down a lot and I was able to train him for certain things. He still has got "crazy eyes" when it comes to guarding a bone or "defending" a "Pack"(Family) member.

    He was "unadoptable" and was on "death row" when we got him. He was doomed. So that's how I justified the ball chopping. Otherwise he would be dead. We couldn't keep him with his nutjuices flowing, on top of his mental traumas.

    After this, I think, sad as it is. Abused animals need to be put down. It's too late for Bruce as our hearts are attached to him. So far he has only bitten me in a rage and no one else.(and I kinda deserved it - knowing how he reacts to sudden movements toward him when he is nervous.)
     
  10. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Fuck the bees and the wasps. They all get the same rights as an ant.
     
  11. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Panda's are so damn cool though..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,461
    I find your implication that there is no difference between a retarded human and an animal to be extremely offensive. One of my children is retarded, and I sure as hell don't consider him to be an animal. That you can't see that there is an important differnence is disturbing.

    How it is that you equate the difference between human races with the difference between species? The difference between races is so small that many question the existance of "race" as a scientific term, but no one questions the existance of species.
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    You shouldn't feel guilty about that at all. I tamed a feral kitten and as soon as he hit "puberty", he was impossible - staying out late at night, attracting females to the area and competing males, crying all the time... luckily he never sprayed. It was only after getting him neutered that he became a suitable housepet.
     
  14. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575

    uhh
    how did we become non animals?
    when did this occur?
    by what mechanism?

    what is this "important difference"?

    /chuckle
     
  15. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    No, animals should be treated Humanely, BUT we should not be afraid to make risks for our own benefit.
     
  16. chris4355 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,055
    Why would it be wrong to do it to a human being? Because a society, let alone a tribe, where humans could own, eat and wear each other is not going to prosper.

    What you are doing is taking a set of morals and beliefs by which humans have been conditioned and brainwashed to follow in order to live with each other. (A set of beliefs necessary for a group of people to strive, whether its a family, a clan, village, nation or even the entire world.)
    And then you are transferring that set of rules to our relations with animals. Animals are capable of eating us, torturing us, or simply killing us for fun just as we do to them. There are no rules in the wild, its just the way it is.

    I care about human beings, and even pets that I own. But should I impose my emotional attachment to cows to other people, should I tell them not to eat it because I personally think its wrong?

    Just the act of being alive means you are killing something, whether its a plant, bacteria, fish or a chicken. Why should you let one thing live and not the other? Are insects not as valuable because they are not as emotionally appealing to you?

    Even if plants cannot think, or feel pain, they are all just as alive as you and me.

    Maybe we should just accept the fact that the act of living is a selfish act in of itself.
     
  17. hug-a-tree Live the life Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    673
    I think what he meant (I can't really speak for him, I know) is that you can't use the excuse that they're "less intelligent" as a means to justify treating them wrong.

    Truth be told, retarded children have been treated horribly. They've been tested on just like animals are today. It's not right and it never will be ok.

    No offense meant.

    As Newkirk says "When it comes to suffering a mouse is a pig is a dog is a boy."
     
  18. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    No. They're sentient beings. Case closed.
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,109
    Pandaemoni:

    Do you really think there is no difference between plants and animals, from a moral point of view? Interesting.

    Cats are not omnivores. They cannot live on a vegetarian diet. Human infants also have special nutritional needs. All vegans need to ensure that they are getting the right nutrients.

    This is the [enc]appeal to nature[/enc] fallacy so commonly heard from meat eaters.

    This statement does not touch on whether it is ethical to eat meat or not - it just skirts around the issue in a somewhat dishonest manner. There are other sources of nutrients than meat, even if you want to pretend there are not.

    No. We evolved to like the taste of energy-providing foods. Hardly surprising. We like loads of sugary and salty foods, even when they are not good for us. Look at America's obesity epidemic if you need some evidence of that.

    Your argument is akin to saying that we ought to eat lots of sugar, because "nature bred us" to like it. And, of course, it goes without saying that you again conveniently try to sweep the moral issue under the carpet.

    I am surprised that you don't seem to appreciate any fundamental difference between plants and animals. Do you want me to explain it to you?

    Doesn't really matter, though, does it, because your pleasure is secondary to health concerns, by your own admission. If you can get all the nutrients you need from TVP and act morally at the same time, that is far preferable to killing animals because you like their taste, is it not?

    Do you think the puppy bought by a family as a Christmas treat for their kids is "very content" to be taken to the vet and put down the next time that family wants to go on holiday and not pay for boarding?

    There's nothing in current laws to stop these kind "owners" of puppies from doing this kind of thing. And you seem to approve of this system.

    It isn't equivalent. Perhaps you ought to make an effort to understand a position before you knee-jerk to criticise it. Otherwise, you risk looking stupid, like now.

    Here's a thought: why don't you look up the notion yourself and get yourself an education?

    Those are the only ones, are they? Are you sure you've exhausted everything?

    My, you do know a lot.



    madanthonywayne:

    I did not say that, except in a very specific context.

    What's the important difference that means the animal is just property while the child has a whole suite of rights? Species membership?

    I don't. However, they are merely differences in degree, not in kind, as you say. And therefore... think about it.
     
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Personally, I think consideration for "life" should be granted only if that life is actually sapient and self aware, or at least sentient considerably

    I find it hard to be sympathetic for creatures that aren't even conscious in order to die. However, since many animals do still feel pain, we shouldn't hurt them with cruelty.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,109
    Which creatures are you thinking of that aren't "even conscious"?

    Obviously not cows or sheep or lambs or chickens. Which, strangely enough, are the very ones that meat eaters love to munch on.
     
  22. chris4355 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,055
    When you try to kill a fly it avoids your hand and flies away, same for a spider and even an ant.

    What do you know about what is self aware or even sentient?

    Does a tree really have less of a value than a rabbit?
     
  23. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Primarily insects, but some upper animals as well.

    My point is, if the animal doesn't value itself, why give it value?

    So you're a vegetarian, James?
    Oh man you really are missing out....meat is great. I love it. Only meat I don't eat is pork and I don't do it willingly because it's disgusting IMO

    But I want to try all kinds of other things: snake, frog legs, etc are at the top of my list, as well as camel and bison







    Yes but flies and ants are not sentient or self aware. They're basically really complex chemical reactions, which is true of us as well but if they don't value themselves then they aren't missing out.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page