Shhh! Don't tell the Democrats! The federal deficit is shrinking...

Hmm, I eat for less than $2 a day right now ...and have good, nutritious meals at every meal ...and that's NOT dog food. It also includes meat, fish or poultry. What's the big deal?

If you sit down and figure it out, meals aren't so expense to make. They ARE, however, pretty expensive to buy!

Baron Max

 

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So, Mephura figures the rate isn't accurate, since people can survive on less, and some of that figure is people deliberately living off welfare.

Well, that's irrelevant, since the important thing to note is that whatever means were used to derive this figure, it is the absolute increase that is the notable thing!

This means that under George W. Bush, the number of poor people has increased.

Even if you consider some of these to be more well-off than poor, they are still marginal, and that number is increasing.

So, the federal deficit shrinking slightly has not helped anyone. It's probably just some fancy juggling of figures, like Reagan did.

 

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We already proved that in the first page....

 

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Wealth that I am sure you are going to distribute to all those needy in the world, right?

Yeah, I am.. What would ever give you the idea I wasn't?
Or are you suffering from the same problems as cottontop?

Actually, probably. For some reason I just don't see households that can't afford to eat as being peaceful and constructive to positive development.
If they are, and setting makes no difference in the end result, then why is there so much talk about puttin gmore money into education?
I suppose that a majority of criminals that are killing people for their wallets are the ones that come from weathy families, right?

And what truth would that be? You haven't directed much of any worth at me...

Have studied economics. I could tell you the same thing. Just because your corrrelations don't match mine, I'm wrong, eh?
Sorry.. I don't see things that way. I've ad to work for what I have and I have no respect for those that live off the system. There are some out there that cannot change their situation, and yes, aid should be provided for them. We should not be supporting women that have another kid just to get a bigger welfare check though.

Sorry if my priorities aren't having fun at the expense of my responsibilities..
I have enough fun when work is done. And despite what you might think, its very possible to have fun with out spending alot of money.

 

I manage to save about 1k a month these days.
I work for bornell supply co.
We're a power transmission distribution company.

 

That's alright. I doubt your intelligence.

SO the guy that doesn't understand simple verb tense is calling me an idiot?
The guy that, for lack of information, makes up a convienent story and then proceeds to believe it without bothering to get his facts straight is calling me an idiot?

Interesting...
A problem?
None at all. Apparently picking spin on things 'suites your purposes' is a fairly common tactic in this thread.

If that is the way we are doing things here, I feel I must stop conversing with you. If you don't have a firm enough grasp of the english language to understand tenses, than it would be a waste of my time and it would only serve to confuse you more.

Rice, potatoes, hamburger, cheese, balogna, bagels, bread, pizza, burritos, canned soups and veggies, and roman noddles. The occasional jr bacon from wendy's.

Spellen allwaze wuz wun ov mie week poyntz.
Hippy? kinda stupid to be asking that, aren't you?
Street sweller? I have been.
Punk-ass bitch? right now, you would be the best example of that in this thread.
Go back into hiding? when was I in hiding?

 

You realize that the rise could just as easily be attributed to an increase in students that don't work?A buddy of mine payed all is bills one summer by playing deablo and selling items on Ebay, but i doubt the US gov is going to count "sitting on your ass and playing video games" as employment.

How about this: I'll agree that the number has gone up if you can show and prove a direct cause and effect relationship between anything he has done and this increase.

Regan did fancy number juggling?
I wouldn't have thought it possible.

 

Yeah.

You seem to spend too little in basic important things, such as food. What about the place that you live in? Is it healthy and safe? What about your quality of life? Or how many hours you work?

Ah?

Well, of course.

Well, education is important...
But to solve social problems and decrease violence, it's often a good idea to invest in free psychologists....

Well, not a majority.

Err... I don't remember now....

Well, that's not what I said.

yeah, I know

 

Well, you should probably eat healthier then. It's worth the money...

 

At the expence of the bride and child?
Which come first, TS? you and yours or everyone else?

Food? Three meals a day. I've actually been cutting down on what I eat lately and changing my meal plan to cut down on fats, calories and sugars.
If fruit, veggies, bread and meat isn't healthy enough, what is?
My home is nice. Not the best neighborhood, but not the slums either. Quality of life?
Cable net access, cable tv, running water, electricity, central air and a working vehichle. what more do I need.
Work? 40 hours, not counting what I put in extra to make sure things are done right. I don't get paid for that though. It's me volunteering my time for the customers.

Thinking that when I said "I've lived" implied that I still do.

I think there would be more important things to invest in. All in all, this country is fucked regardless of who is president at the time, and no amount of budget balancing is going to fix that. What is needed is a president who is willing to force things through and bend the rules for the good of the country and not the good of private interests and party politics, but that isn't goign to happen anytime in the near future. Rep? Dem? It doesn't matter. It's all about politics, not people.

So the snide comment "wow... you have a life, eh?" was about what exactly?

 

Well, of course not.

But it's not like we won't have enough money. Specially when she becomes an actress in Hollywood.

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Well, sorry, I can't just believe those numbers with those things. :bugeye:

No there wouldn't. People are violent because they had fucked up childhoods.

Yeah.... besides bending the rules...

Well, I assumed you work your ass off all the time and you have no fun.
But again, I still don't believe you.

 

The federal deficit is only shrinking from the astronomical figures that bush ran it up to in his first 5 years in office. War in Iraq, my ass. Once you run the deficits to sky-high margins, it is easy cut back a little and "say" that the deficit is shrinking. Remember what Clinton did? He actually balanced his budgets, unlike what bushy bush has ever done. Iraqi war, again, my ass.

Mephura,

Give us a few examples. Please.

First, why do you think this is? Here in america the great? Second, what are your solutions?

What is your point?

One of you is wrong. Numbers don't lie. Only the wrong numbers, and the wrong people. How can I tell you which numbers are wrong and which are right? I can't. That's the beauty of the american political environment. Everyone seems to be lying, for all I can tell. So, there is no objective truth. Only those that we think are more objective than others. Bunch of cock-sucking, pig-faced liars. Tell me I am wrong.

Good for you. I respect you so much.

Really? You want to be the arbiter of starving children now?

I too once saved 1K a month, or more. I was 26, 27, 28. I was an officer in the u.s. army. Now, I've had to spend that savings, at substantial penalties, because of a disability called major depression. I hope you don't have to do the same, or similar, someday.

Why is that? Because I get angry? Because I am pissed off at humanity in general, and you in specific? Is this the best your dumb-ass can do?

Let me see. Where to start? How about this? I understood your tense. I saw no explanation of your current situation. I chose to think this was still correct, which I still think. You say you now save about 1K a month, so I will believe you. For now. When did you live on $500 a month? 1957? How long did it take you, working at the bornell supply company (a power transmission distribution company, no less), to get to a point where you could save a whole K a month? You could be making as little as 3K a month, though I doubt it's that low. It must have been a long time ago when you were living on only $500/month. 1957?

Feel free. Like I said, go back into hiding.

All this shit over a little lack of information given, on your part.

Know what that costs in non-1957 dollars? In other words, today's dollars? Let's see, as I buy most of that today.

For one adult male:

Cheap rice: $10.00 (month).
Potatoes: $10.00 (month)
Hamburger: $40.00 (month) (cheapest, ie highest fat content)
Cheese: $10.00 (enough for potatoes and bologna sandwiches for one month)
Bologna: $6.00 (month)
Bagels: $15.00 (let's say 30 a month at $.50 each. What no cream cheese, butter or locks? I don't see any other breakfast food listed, unless you count rice, with sugar and butter.)
Bread: $5.00 (two loaves only. If you buy "healthy bread," this could be much more)
Pizza: $10.00 (4 cheap ones from the grocery store or one from Pizza Hut, if you are lucky)
Burritos: $4.00 (8 of the cheapest at $.50 each.)
Canned soups: $10.00 ($1.00 each, of the cheapest. So you buy 10, in this scenario)
Veggies: $10.00 ($.69 to $1.19 each, of the cheapest. Let's say you buy 12)
Rammen Noodles: $2.00 (at 5 for a dollar)

Now. For the rice. You eat it plain? No butter? Salt? Pepper? Sugar? Fresh veggies (not canned)?
For the potatoes. No butter? Sour cream? Bacon Bits? Chives? Ranch dressing?
Hamburger? No buns? Mayo? Mustard? Lettuce? Tomato? Onions? Hamburger Helper of some kind? Barbecue sauce?
For the soups, no crackers?
Without any of the above items as condiments, you are talking about $122.00, just for the basics. And the amounts of each that I listed above are very conservative amounts. I'm not sure that an adult male could live on what I listed above.

All politicians do, lately, it seems.

 

Depression is considered a disability in this country? Is this a new thing?

What did people do in 1957 when they were "depressed"? Or for that matter, in the 1920s?

Of the items listed, I could eat like a freakin' king! ...and probably get fat as a damned king, too! I eat for LESS than $2 per day ...and eat well and nutrituous meals.

Baron Max

 

I'm not trying to piss on your dreams here, but what makes you think that she will make it out of all the thousands of others that have that very same dream everyday?

What numbers?
I've never giving numbers as to what I am making now.

So treat the violent people instead of stop fucked up childhoods?
The idea situation in this case would be one that puts its self out of a need for existance.

Loosk at Teddy Roosevelt. Half the things he did were blatantly illegal, or at the very least highly questionable.. What did we get? The panama canal, public parks, better labor relations and anti-trust laws..
FDR: Tons of public work programs and labor reforms, not to mention FDIC and other enconomic programs to help bring us out of the depression and stabalize the economy.
Both of these men definitely bent the rules to say the least. FDR admitted to it openly.

40-50 hours a week. Leaves plenty of time for fun. I actually wish I could work more, but 10hours is all I am willing to donate to a company that doesn't pay overtime.

 

Reading a good book, of which I've collected many of over the years. Enough that I haven't gotten through half of them.
Hiking in the woods, or swimming: enjoying a nice day at the beach.
Sitting around with friends and playing video games or watching movies.
Boardgames, sports.. playing cards with friends and family.
Sure, there are alot of things that require money, but there are plenty that don't. An argument could be made that These things require money in the form of gas to get there or food to eat while doing so, but I'm going to be eating something that day regardless, and gas will be used one way or the other. The same argument could be made to say it takes money to sleep. After all, the bed cost something, so does the appartment the bed is in, but I'm not paying to sleep.

Why do I think they aren't peaceful and constructive to positive development?
Because existance in such a house hold would be failry stressful. I believe that the right people in such a situation could deal with the situation and make it less so, but I would fear that isn't the case for most. Stress, in many people, is either taken out on others or, at the very least, affects that persons mood so that the person in question isn't helping to raise the mood and over all level of positivity in such an environment. Two parents in such a situation would most likely fight more than they would otherwise, and not be as caring with their child(ren).

My solutions? The biggest one would be don't get in those situations in the first place. We create our own lives. Don't have children before you are financially capable of raising them.
Secondly, plan for the future, at least a bit. Savemoney, don't get into debt more than is necessary, and take care of what you have.
Learn to be more self sufficient. Learn how to do basic auto maintenance and house hold repair, so as to cut down dependance on others, and large bills when things go wrong.
Don't play the victim. Realise that there are many places out there where things can be gotten cheaply, and that there are many jobs available if you are willing to swallow your pride. Fastfood may not be glamourous, but it is a paycheck. Aldi's, Save-a-lot, goodwill, and the salvation army stores are your best friends.

My point was that by supporting people that would abuse the system instead of using it only when it is necessary, we are being self defeating. Con I prove that poverty leads to violent crime? No. Is it my belief? In many cases, yes. Perhaps not directly, but poverty can be the underlying cause for many of the factors that lead to that path.
If we continue to support people that would only burden the system further, especially with no form of birthcontrol being mandatory, that will only lead to an increase in the population dependant on those systems and thus, more violent crimes.

Not wrong at all. Numbers don't lie, but statistics can be made to "prove" anything. My main beef in this thread is not with the message, but with using statistics as evidence. Depending on how the number is arrived at, you can make that number say damn near anything. That is why you can have two parties claiming the exact opposite of each other, both with statistics to back thier points. The numbers aren't lying in either case. The system is fucked.

The feeling is mutual.

I've had similar. Not depression, mind you. What they call emotional stress disorder. I was BAS from the Airforce because of it. The worst part about those kinds of disabilities is the feeling of helplessness, but I'm sure you already know what I am talking about. No one wants to be that way, but we have to find someway of dealing with it so that we can maintain a "normal" life. What works best for me is alot of forethought and caution. I avoid situations that would cause me that kind of stress. I work through the issues that I do have as soon as I can identify them, but sometimes it still catches up with me. Mine is less depression and more alot of irrational fears which just compound and spiral out of control. Paranoia sets in, and in the end, I'm left in one hell of a state.

As far as being the arbiter of starving children: Someone will have to eventually, if nothing is done to halt the problem. Life is hard, and making the best of it sometimes requires sacrifices. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news. (ok some people might get a kick out of it, but you know what I am saying..) The point was that these children didn't magically appear. We know what causes children. We have ways of avoiding that. Wouldn't mandatory birth control be cheaper than supporting a person, or two or three?
The truth of the matter is that human life isn't something we want to treat as meaningless, but by allowing children to come into the world when we know they will not be cared for in an appropriate manner, we have done just that. What is worse, allowing someone to die slowly over years, letting there hopes and dreams get crushed, and breaking the hearts of those around them everyday, or ending it quickly with some dignity? Hell, we allow dogs that curtesy, yet we won't give it to even the terminally ill?
The system is overburdened. Fixing it isn't going to happen anytime soon. There are just too many egos in the way of that. The number of dying will only increase if we continue to handle the problem the same way we've been doing so. I've always been one for decisive action. If I'm required to fill such a position, so be it.

Actually, because you would rather run off at the mouth with made up conclusions instead of bothering ot look for what is there.

I lived on that much about 4 years ago.
An explanation of my current situation wasn't asked for.

Not very long at all. I've been here for 2 years. I've continued to keep my expenses low. I make 13.50 and hour now. After taxes, that is about $1500 a month. Rent (shared appartment) is 550 a month, so my half is 275. That leaves 237 for electric, gassoline, food and entertainment. (water is included with the rent) my share of the cable is 40, electric, about 20-25, and food is about 60 for the month. leave a little over 100 for gass and other things. My insurance comes to about 200 for 6 months, so it's pretty easy to save that up.

You never have explained this whole hiding thing. I didn't realize I was in hiding. For now, you've raised yourself above the petty insult for the most part, so...

Or, over you chosing to make assumptions with out getting your facts straight.

Where do you shop? Try Aldi's or save alot.
1lb of balogna=$1
per month=4
The rice is probably about accurate
Potatoes: 10lb bag for about 5 bucks.
I might go through 20lbs in a month, but that would be doubtful.
hambuger: 3lbs for 5 bucks. that is about all i would need for a week, so about 20 for the month.
bagels: 6pack for $1-$1.50 That's good for a week, so $4-6 for the month.
Cheese: 16 slice pack for about 1-2 dollars. Is it real cheese? not fucking likely. Good enough? yup. So a max of 6 per month there.
Bread: three loaves for $1. Common enough to find that at a hostess/wonderbread outlet or at aldi's. I'll generally buy 6 and freeze the 5 to use as needed. $2 for the month and then some.
Pizza: 1.50 for the getto ones. (get a bag of shredded cheese for them $2)
4 would put you at 6 pluss the cheese brings us to 8.
the burritos I can normally find at three for a dollar. or a ten pack for $3 which is the way to go. $9 for the month, 30 burritos.
soup is about 59 cents a can same for veggies. so at your senario, that would be 5.90.
I'lll give you the veggies just to compensate for any descrepancies, so $10.
Noddles I'll give you too.

Your total=$132
My total=$82.90 That being the maximums I used up there which is more than I would actually eat in a month. I do the shopping, and since there are two of us, I load up on teh staples (potatoes, bread, hamburger, cheese and balogna), buying twice what I would for myself alone, maybe a bit less.
It leaves about $20 to 30 left for condaments, which won't be used in a month (main ones being hot sauce and ketchup and butter)
Use the rest for "luxery foods" or to build up a stock of canned goods and cooking items such as flour and sugar. Also, pancake mix can be gotten really cheap as well. (the hot sauce can be gotten for $1 a bottle and a thing of ketschup for about 2.)
Frozen chicken breasts are also something to stock up on.

On rice?? normally, it would be rice, the chicken, and some hot sauce. I might throw something else in there depending on what is available., such as potatoes, onions (3lb bag for 2.50), carrots... etc. If I get eggs, I can do fried rice using frozen mixed veggies. No biggie.

Butter, maybe sourcream (luxery food). No bacon, chives or ranch. Salt and pepper, along with other spices can be gotten real cheap from dollar store and the like.

Cheese hot sauce and onion. Buns can be gotten for the same price as the bread. (3 packs of 8 for $1. Again, stock up)

No, no crackers. soup.

132. your math was off.
As for if one can, yes. My estimate came up to 82.90 and I wouldn't eat all of that in one month. Then again, I really don't eat much. A bagel, plain, for breakfast. I might get a jr bacon from wendy's for lunch ($1) and then have a small dinner. Drink alot of water too. It keeps hunger down.
On top of that, alot of what I listed would actually be left over for over a month. Butter would be bought about ever 6-8 weeks. Salt, pepper and spice have a much longer time in between needing to be repurchased. Bread gets frozen and stocked up, as do soup and and canned veggies. I might go through 3 lbs of hambuger a week, but that is doubtful. closer to say 3 lbs every two. After the first two months, you start having a stock of things you don't need to purchase and can sub in other items like chicken breast and frozen veggies. The meals aren't large, but then again, they don't have to be.
Remember your time in basic? Think of those meals. Not big, then again you didn't have time to eat a large meal, and the food wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. That is how I live. Food is to eat. It's required. I don't eat to spend alot of money or too impress people. I eat what I need to and little else, and I do it as cheaply as possible. But, as far as the stock pile of items in my freezer and cupboards go, the larger that gets, the more I can splurge on items such as a occasional steak or some take out, and still remain in my budget.

It was more to the point of saying I doubt regan would have been capable of doing fancy number juggling.

 

Baron,

I don't know how "new" it is, but it IS considered a disability. For good reason.

Kill their kids? Their wives or husbands? Local imbeciles at the rail-head? Themselves? I suppose, now, you are going to say that any of these options are okay. Do you know what many vets of foreign wars are considered nowadays? Depressed. Of course, you are probably like bush. Too much of a wimp to join in a foreign war.

Give us a list of what you eat, daily, for less than $2. Rattlesnake? Or Rammen noodles? (which, btw, turn your muscles into mush, or bone, I forget which.)

Mephura,

Library, usually free. I do a lot of this. Collecting? Where in my budget did you see money for buying books? Other than minus the cigs and cola. You don't drink cola? If not, good. Do you smoke? You haven't said. I don't have a used book store in town, here. The closest is 35 miles away. I don't have the money to buy the gas (even before it went up 20% in the last two days), to get to that used book store. In town, here, at Wal-Mart, the ONLY book store in town, most books cost at least $5-7 each. For the cheapest.

No woods or rivers or lakes or beaches anywhere near Brownfield Texas. There is a swimming pool, however. Probably around $5 to get in. Wouldn't know. Never had the money to even think about going.

Know how much a "video game" costs? $15-50. Not to mention at least $150 to get the gaming console.

Get's old after a short time. What kind of cards? Poker? Rummy? Spades?

You've named one so far. Books. Maybe two. The cards.

Gas will not be used one way or the other, necessarily. Guess how long 17 gallons of gas lasts me. I'll tell you. About 2 months. Because I have to make it last that long.

What, are you not sleeping? Everything costs something in today's world. Nothing is free. And if you have little, like 13.1%, or more, of america, everything costs a shit load.

As for the rest of your statement, I'll agree with most of it. I'm too tired to rebut anything tonight. Most of what you said, I agree with. As far as the food for the month, you are right, my math was off. It should have been $132 for the month. Nonetheless, I have one grocery store in my town, or within a 35-mile radius for that matter. United. I hate them. Their prices are outrageous. They know they have some of us over a barrel. They do. They get away with it too. No salvation army here, no goodwill, no thrift stores (other than a dollar general). There is one grocery store. One wal-mart. Two hardware stores. No wendy's. No taco bell/bueno. No whataburger. One mc'donalds. One kfc. One dairy queen. One sonic. Two steak houses that I can't afford to go to. If I go to one of the above fast-food places, I spend a max of $2 off the dollar menu.

 

Anyone can make excuses for their plight, but how many are willing to do something to try to fix it? Or are they just content to wallow in their own misery?

How do you think this great nation was settled? ...by people who whined and cried and did nothing? ...by people who waited for someone else to fix their problems? No! It was by people who worked to better themselves and their family.

Why can't people do that anymore? Why can't people help themselves instead of whinning and moaning and waitiing for someone else to fix things? Are we really that lost and worthless?

Baron Max

 

I have an eye to spot this kind of thing. She is not the regular person. She has that natural magnetic nature of a hollywood actress. She is not regular lookind either. She is a blend of many different genetic pools, which gives her an unique look. Just that is enough to attract the right people.

You gave numbers. Like $200 for rent...

I didn't say that. You gotta do both.

???

The end does not justify the means (unless it doesn't hurt anyone, then that might be done)...

What is your position in the company?

 

Yeah.

No.

Well, they lived with it miserably, like Abraham Lincoln,
or killed themselves,
or drank heavily (people used to drink and smoke much more),
or take an over the counter opium tincture.

Because the very society that we built has crippled us. We can no longer claim hundreds of acres in the wilderness and become cattle barons, we don't even have room to grow our own vegetables. We depend on local governments for clean water and a good economy. Used to be all you needed was some farm animals and seeds, maybe an axe, but the vast resources our forefathers enjoyed are just gone, and this is impossible. We expect the government to come and fix things because it demands money from us, it demands certain behavior outlined by laws, and prohibits other behavior. This nation was settled by people that worked hard, but they also took alot from others they considered less than human, and they did it WITH the help of the federal government. How long do you think settlers in the west would last if the cavalry couldn't come to rescue them from indians?

You know the phrase "poor house"? ...they really did have poor houses, a primitive version of welfare.

Mostly the miseries of the recent past are whitewashed over. There were also miserable sods like us, with the same problems, and nowhere to go, and no one to help them, and God help you if you were old, or an orphan. Someone along the way decided that instead of dependence on unreliable charities, we should have a formal program of social welfare to help people like the victims of the dust bowl, or floods.

 

hahaha.,you think depression is a choice?!?how exactly would you go about fixing your own depression?are you claiming that no one got clinically depressed in the good ol' days?that they just picked themselves up and carried on working?my grandad suffered from depression and killed himself.you live in a fairly weird and sheltered world.