This post was originally posted by Woody in the thread "The Scientific Study of Religion", where it was not quite appropriate. SkinWalker suggested we spin this off in a seperate thread, which I have done here. I recommend taking a factual approach rather than opinion or conjecture. Enjoy Cris SW: You have a nice summary on religion, but let's cut to the chase. You have been strangely silent on the subject of Jesus Christ. (whether he was real or not). So Let's split hairs here: Did a real man named Jesus (thought to be the messiah by his believers) really die on a cross? What is the basis for your decision yah or nah? If he was a real man, then that establishes a fact. It seems reasonable, even to an atheist, that a teacher named Jesus lived on this earth 2000 years ago. Next, when Jesus died on a cross, did he believe he was doing so for the salvation of mankind? Did he die believing he was doing it for God (whether or not God really exists)? I think Jesus did exactly that. Next question: How can a man decide his own fate the way it happened to Jesus? How can he conceive of it, and why? Did he face down death and an imaginary hell so the rest of us wouldn't have to worry about it? Mighty nice of him. Things to ponder. ------------------------- More things to ponder: What in your opinion is knowledge? Does it only come from scientific evaluation? We both believe knowledge is the ultimate reality, don't we? The difference between you and myself is how reality can be determined. I personally don't think human science does the whole job. I conclude the following difference between you and me: I believe knowledge logos is a living entity that transcends time and space. You believe logos is a state of mental awareness that comes as a result of human consciousness. So here it is in a nutshell: Which came first, logic or the universe? Is logic a result of the existence of the universe, or is the universe under the domain of logic, hence making logic the predecessor to existence of the universe? Last edited by Woody : Today at 04:59 PM.