Actually it was Christianity that insisted that the earth was flat. When Copernicus (around 1514) and Galileo suggested that the earth was infact round, and that it revolved around the sun, and published scientific evidence to prove it. Christianity persecuted them and forced them to withdraw their claims with threats of incarceration. Show's how much you know about history. Try googling Copernicus or Galileo. If you are talking about the ancient greek/roman philosophers, they were not scientists (they didnt use the method). Nor were alchemists. Still, I'd love to see those links. What else are you going to put on your blooper show DVD?? I bet you don't even know what "Thal_______" was. Eastern theorys are way ahead with "Qi/prana"?? I bet thats how they heal so many sick people. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Use the force Luke!! Many would argue the biggest threat to humanity at the moment is war, war started by conflict between christianity and islam - two religions that are ironically almost identical, except for the language and some of the characters. Others are afraid that we face a pandemic threat from the bird flu virus h5n1 if it mutates into a human form. Yet another possible pandemic to come out of asia (remember SARS), where their hygeine standards are obviously pathetic. These diseases wouldn't get out of a single city/state if they started in a western country. Science is very busy working to develop a vaccine. Thankyou science. If this shit gets out of hand, people could KILL EACH OTHER for this vaccine.
"because it mans that you have a system which dictates wat is 'acceptable' emotion, which is of course, fascism. itis alreadyhere!" The mental health system never dictates what is and isnt "acceptable" emotion. If people feel fuckin miserable and depressed, panicking and worried, or furiously angry, how is the mental health system going to stop them feeling that way if they don't want any help - if they don't want to change themselves? People feel that way all the time. No-one is locking them up. It can only assist people to change if they are willing to do so. Only if people seek help for their suffering/illness they can then choose to accept a diagnosis or not. The system however does dictate that mental illness should not allow any individual to harm other people. That includes people who are violent. How can you deny the reality of schizophrenia, for example? Or epilepsy? Would you be offended if I told you there was no such thing as HIV/AIDS? We should stop sending all that medicine and all those condoms to africa - if the disease does not exist! They don't seem to listen anyway. Neither do you. You know what? Why don't you just do without medicine and science altogether. When someone in your famliy gets sick, thats up to you. BTW your link doesnt work, and here is a quote by your Thomas - he obviously has no idea as to the definition of these terms: "Doubt is to certainty as neurosis is to psychosis. The neurotic is in doubt and has fears about persons and things; the psychotic has convictions and makes claims about them. In short, the neurotic has problems, the psychotic has solutions." But people who are psychotic are deluded?!?! Moron. Here is one I like: "If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia." You realise this one is actually used seriously? "Involuntary mental hospitalization is like slavery." Dude, they only involuntarily hospitalise people if, A: They try to kill someone B: They commit a heinous crime and are deemed totally insane C: Their parents are looking out for their best interests - their health. I do believe suicide is a right that people should have. But their friends and family should have a right to help them. Its still very easy in the western world for adults to commit suicide. Your reference is obviously a complete fool. You know who he's friends with? Tom Cruise, the scientologist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz Here we go! Criticism: "Mainstream psychiatrists argue that Szasz's theories deserve refutation only because they are often cited by Scientologists and other anti-psychiatrists. Szasz himself conducts a traditional psychoanalytic practice for individuals with problems of living; there is nothing in his writings to suggest that he has any experience with or ever treats patients with serious mental illness. Moreover, serious mental illness is now regularly "approached, measured, or tested in scientific fashion" and the evidence that schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses are brain diseases is overwhelming." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz Besides, he's 85 years old.
yes i was refering to the romans, secondly you actually said science has never made a mistake, i wont argue with you, you seem angry thats not good man learn to relax, im not getting at you, and you have pointed out to me about many religious statements, who said i was religious, i think organized religion is a scam personally, i am spiritual but not religious, if i believe anything its closer to daoism than anything else, and ok i thought they were ancient scientists, what do you class as a scientist? explain your view of the definition of "science" please, and it wasnt only christians who believed it was flat, and you talking to me about knowing what im talking about? you dont seem to understand Qi atall, you think its just something that can magically cure a person because some1 is directing qi on them? it dosent work like this, its all about your bodys energy bieng in balence with itself, when there is an imbalence in energy sickness follows, or bad health, Qi runs through all living things, you probably dont believe this so i wont go into more detail but your loss not mine, peace
Man science has made plenty of mistakes. Einstein's research was exploited and its misuse resulted in the atomic bomb! Unlike religion however, science acknowledges its mistakes and tries to prevent making the same mistakes in the future. Lives lost versus lives saved, thats one of the main reasons I believe in it.
Atomic bomb is not such a bad thing though, thanks to them there was just the Cold War, not World War III
I'm not so sure the Cold War was a positive alternative tio WWIII, but that's fodder for another thread. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Sure it was, or else I'd probably be dead and smashed on the front line, or my father and mother at least, besides living in the USSR was not THAT bad, better to war anyday.
EmptyForceOfChi, I believe in peace too. Sorry if I sound angry, yeah I did get angry, but I do take this issue personally. I'm really quite left wing, I voted for "The Green Party" I was always opposed the invasion of Iraq, I went to the protest. When soldiers are killing each other in a war, the medics are standing by, trying to stop the injured from dying. Lives lost versus lives saved, thats one of the main reasons I believe in medicine - which has come from science. So its saved my life, I know that for a fact. There are types of science I don't like, for example the science of weapons and military science - developing new ways to kill people. And yes, scientists can be cold and emotionless, I guess those ones shouldn't be working with people! Just in a lab. I also have some ethical concerns about the use of science, like I don't think we should clone living people. I'm mostly in favour of stem cell research though. Imagine if it could save your child's life?
sci·ence The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience. this is what makes a scientist are you saying people of ancient times didnt class as scientists? and none of these people in the history of science has ever been wrong no? yes medical science is good who said it wasnt? go to my thread on "big bang theory" and higher form of existance in philosophy and see what theorys of science i have doubts in, im all for tech ad science for the good of mankind, but i also know there arelternatives to machinery, i also know the benifits of taiji training and qigong, and i fuse the east with the west, i see that you and family have depended on medical science to save your lives, thats why you have faith in it, medical science also makes alot of mistakes and actually kills quite a few people and permenantly disables them for life in some cases, malpractise isnt this science gone wrong?, or when they said that woman had cancer and amputated her leg, then later found out it wasnt cancer atall, then she sued, so yeah those are examples of science gone wrong if you want more i will gladly share, and you obviously have beef with eastern teachings i dont mind many people do, i have seen people become cured after qigong training and practise, i can myself cure light headaches stomach aches back pain muscle pains with my qi onto other people, an expert in qigong can heal much greater things, but to cure a turminal desiese you would have to send it into remission yourself with help by balencing your energies its a gradual process, and yes there is proof of this, look it up if you want google it, about the boy who beat cancer just by meditation he was in a wheelchair, american boy, more cases have been proven, and with herbal medicine i suppose you will knock that next, what do you think western medicine comes from? and where do you think the concept of medicine came from, not the west thats for sure,
an important point, ok western medicine you know the type your GP doctor hands out on prescription, does anybody here actualy read what they are injesting? if you dont read side effects of western medicine you should start now, i personally do not take western medicine i dont take pain kilers antibiotics i dont wait 6 hours at the hospital to get my arm looked at when its broken, i know the human body well enough to fix these minor problems without any medical help, i want to point out and stress this right now im not talking about serious ilness here or curing aids or cancer or transplants, i am speaking of pills and medicine people take for minor illnesses or pains, the actual medicine that you take to heal you for mino things, actually causes more harm than good, my wife stopped taking western medicine after i explained and showed her the side effects that were in small print on the bottle of pills her GP prescribed her, the medicine was only to cure some period pains and fluctuations, and the side effects were along these lines, (may cause hair loss, diharea constipation, problems to certain organs,) i cant remember it exactly, then i started looking at the side effects for all of these type of drugs, and its pardon my french fucking idiotic and wreckless, people chug down these pills on a daily bases and dont even read them, they could end up bald trying to cure a simple sharppain of some sorts, this is more serious than people take it for i think personally, im not knocking western science here im knocking the government and its use of science for money, and it actually makes your immune system more relient on drugs to cure simple things, makes headaches worse over time, the body gets used to outside help for curing things that cn be overcome without any help, i dont get sick ive only ever had like 3 colds, had the flu once, and i live in a cold place, (london) and everyone around me gets colds and takes western medicine and the people i know who are fromt he far east and people i train with in martiala rts, dont get sick just like me, and all over the world you will see taiji/bagua/qi gong practitioners are healthyer than people who dont do it, not for the exersize benifits alone, they get sick alot less and dont get headaches much and know how to cure simple things like head pains muscle pains and other small pains that people sually take western medicine for, i have more to say on this matter but i will say more after some responses peace
VERY important point! and it reveals the ultra reudcitionism which is materialistic science. Which focusses on a 'symptom' as thoug it is not connected to a more comples holistic process I also try and stay away from allopathic medicine. Buti like you also realize the value of other forms of medical procedure such as surgery.....HOWEVER, it seems very barabaric doesn't it? cutting up the human organism. This busy procedure has come to prominence in a culture which also promotes such disease rendering substances suc as sugar, salt, fat, chemcial additives in foods and drinks which all contribute to various forms of disease. Even with children, te corporates push sugar and salt etc on them. They for example will insidiously use cartoon characters etc on children's food and drink pachaging, and stick tem child-eye level in supermarkets so te little ones will badger mama for the crap shit!
The children are not stupid. If the paretns would explain that a particular product is harmful and damaging for their body I'm sure they'd understand. The problem is that parents talk too little with children about important issues, because they think that the children probably would not understand (what in incorrect), morover - many put children before tv's so that they do the education for them.
first of all telling a child something is bad for them makes them want to do it more, its teenage nature to be rebelious. i dont blaim the parents ntirely, yes they can play a part but not total control, i blaim the government, they could ban smoking cigaretts, ban alchohole, bad fatty foods, ban addictive substance put in food drink and products, they have the ability to stop these things easily, but they care more about money than peoples well bieng, thats a fact. peace.
Bans don't work. The USA, USSR, any other country of your preference, have never worked, just created black markets. And why on earth would you want to ban alcohol?! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i see the story go sometin like tis--in Uk anyhow: in the past times Middles Ages etc the aristocrats and Royalty would eat 'refined' foods.....Thus its been noted by the historians i'ver read that they had shitty rotten teeth. it was the peasants who eat organic food and had relatively good teethe etc NOw the situation is totally different. its usually the middle, nd upper classes with their access to expensive organic food and the low income peoples are eating the shitty refined foods Also notice how its made to be hip eating fast food....Justin Timberlake did a big sponsorship thing with McDonalds as have other 'hip' celebrities.....so it is likea ting....an attitude which is saying that eating crap is cool cause the middle classers done eat organic, and wory about foods .....know what i mean? so what is NEEDED regarding ecucating about natrual food is to strip the ting away from the corporate propaganda machine, and to get natrual food made cheaper sos ALL people can have it Also an important note, regarding Medicine. They are spcialized factionsin Medicine as you know, and these spcializations are themselves are very intensive. so the irony is this--tey do not LEAR about nutrition........! I speak from experience...believe it
duendy, are you now saying surgery is bogus? As for evidence of mental illness, try the DSM-IV - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition. Its based on statistics, is that proof enough for you? its also 943 pages and weighs 4.2 pounds, published 2000. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0890420246/103-6079888-6895026?v=glance Unlike your scientologist croc, who was born in 1920, and whos book was published in 1961! How convenient that there wasnt any evidence for mental illness back in 1961? Laws and procedures regarding institutionalisation were quite different back then, but then again, that was before the civil rights movement. People were still segregated based on race in 1961. So how is that era relevant to today? Your reference is bunk. The medical system in america is quite fucked, it is the worst public medical system of any of the countries in the developed world. So USA is a bad example of medicine - but thats due to a lack of government funding, not the people who work in it. Did you read the bit at the end of wikipedia entry?: "Moreover, serious mental illness is now regularly "approached, measured, or tested in scientific fashion" and the evidence that schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses are brain diseases is overwhelming." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz
