Take this statement at face value: The best thing that you can do right now is to treat me as a real human being with a normal amount of credibility. I haven't lied to you. I've challenged your viewpoint, and as you well know, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. If you want to talk, we can talk. Just please don't lay into anyone like that again. You are aware of the different forms of conditioning, right? I'm not real good at the technicalese, but I know about experiments using dogs, rats, pigeons, and other animals that show that conditioned responses can be installed in animals. There are also experiments that show that it can be done to humans, and that this conditioning is often intractable. It doesn't help to suffer physical maladies that seem congruent with the conditioning. It also doesn't help to know that the humans you have to work with are often the same ones who caused the damage, and that they are basically not trustworthy. I've learned firsthand more about learned helplessness and phobias forced on a person than I ever wanted to know. Also, I've learned about the depths of vicious stupidity. Thankfully, EmptyForceOfChi, you seem to be without that particular property, although you had me worried for a while there. I've got to tell you something about me and children, too. I've had to babysit before and I've dealt out punishments that involved very little vindictiveness and an absolute minimum of force. By this I mean that I would swat hard enough to sting, just a little, and very few times. Superior force only has to be shown. It does not have to be indulged in. Bullying is indulgence and overindulgence. So is child abuse. If a person must indulge, let it be in pleasant things like cakes and cookies and good books, or pizza, for crying out loud. I have also helped people rehabilitate their lives after they had run out of options and given up. How to put you in my shoes? I don't remember winning a fight until I was 11 years old, and that was a bit of a cheat. I don't count the time I ambushed one little boy who had been hitting me a lot. I have no idea why he started on me, except that maybe I was the only one whose ass he could kick. So I took him by surprise and hurt him pretty badly. He was the only dipstick I got off my back in my first six years of school, and it helped a little. Come to think of it, there was the one whose head I managed to dash against the wall when I was about eight years old. The opportunity came about by accident, I didn't even know that I was going to take it, but it was the only chance that I ever had to do anything to him after the torture that he had put me through. I can't even remember if he had done anything to me that school year, but he put me through an entire year of extreme pain on the playground before that, and I have no idea why. When there are half a dozen together, come out of nowhere, and shove you around a circle, then one of them kicks you in the gut, the one whose head I eventually broke, there is absolutely no possibility of defending yourself. It may not have been every single day, but it was several times a week. Do you actually believe that I had a chance of standing up against the authority figures? If I so much as said a word, they slapped me with all their strength. If I actually did anything they found worse things to do to me. I can't talk any more right now or I am going to take this entire computer apart and smash the pieces.