I have heard theories very similar to that one, the reason i disagree with them is b/c they are based on a hierarchal structure, placing importance on one over the other.. We rely on that "...bottom..." layer for our survival, so placing outright importance on our existance is DEPENDANT on the survival of , as you put it, the "...bottom..." I ask, who is more important?? And who needs to be protected to ensure our survival?? Don't the answers to those questions negate the hierarchal theory? the theory I adopt is that the world is a web, interdependant on everything for it's survival.. NOTHING, is more important than another. Some world renowned scientists who adopt this theory are, Capra, Lovelock, and many more... from this theory some great minds have come up with great ideas of sustaining life... Paul Hawkin"Natural Capital", david Korten "Taming the Giants", Natrass and Altomare "The Natural Step..." and my fav. Arne Naess, "Deep Ecology." I think we may have come to the point where we agree to disagree Deist.. I don't know, but I suggest this disaster is in everything; we are all doomed! Who is responsible -- to me -- is a wast of intellectual thinking because it will never reveal a solution..
Equality is a human concept All men are created equal. Animals live in a hiarchal society. Making animals equal to humans makes humans act like animals.
YES yes the "animals" live in a hierarchical society, but don't forget that hierarchy begins and ends within it's own species.. it does not spill over to other species.. Sure there is the hunter and hunted but that is not a hierarchy, check the def'n if you don't agree. Humans are the only ones who transcend that hierarchy to other species... WHY? your points are good Deist but missing crucial fundamentals. I ask, aren't humans animals first? I mean lions are animals first, apes and monkeys are all animals first, so aren't humans?? and if not, explain... Don't forget we are not from some other planetary system, we originated here along with everything else.
Re: YES Hierarchies among animals most certainly does spill over into other species - pecking order, food chain and etc. The hunter and hunted most definately is another hierarchy. Prey is completely at the mercy of the captor. Humans are the best ones recognizing that animals and their fellow man have rights, not all rightrs to themselves alone and humans willingly sacrifice their selfs to defend these rights of others. Human society at least in the west, is based on such transcendant qualities placing us above animals. A truely superior type of conduct to the animals
a plant is breaks out of a seeds and grows up toward the light. It gets larger, pulling in water, air and sunlight. as it grows, it's shade prevents the groths of other plants, and they die. A rabbit comes along, and eats the plant, killing it. a fox comes along and eats the rabbit a wolf comes along and eats the fox a man comes along and eats the wolf the man trips while out walking the next day, hits his head and dies. a vulture comes along and eats some of the body of the man a wolf comes along and eats some of the body of the man a fox comes along and eats some of the body oft he man a fungus spore lands on the body of the man, and further decomposes it a bacterium lands on the body of the man, and further decomposes it a plant seed lands on what is left of the body of the man, now covered in fungus and mostly decomposed. a plant is breaks out of a seeds and grows up toward the light. It gets larger, pulling in water, air and sunlight. as it grows, it's shade prevents the groths of other plants, and they die. A rabbit comes along, and eats the plant, killing it. ... where is the hierarchy in the above story? Please list it for me, and prove the order using nothing but the information given in the above. If you want me to agree with your plan for saving the dieing world, you must prove to me that I need to, nad can, do so. The first step is to show me the innate order in the above.
The Vicious Cycle It’s true that life in general has been trapped by the disaster's price tag of survival of the fittest, the most vicious wins, and the predator-prey relationship existing in a brutal world. Mother Earth, what a Bitch If you're overlooking a hierachy in the Vicious Cycle, the animal with the biggest claws is on top of the food chain and the most gentile is the most vulnerable. Within specific animal species a clear pecking order has been observed many times
Re: The Vicious Cycle Then why is there a fossil record of preditors in the Cambrian, prior to the disaster? And If the animal with the biggest claws is at the top of the hierarchy, then how come tiny little bacteria gets to eats those claws after the creature dies? What about viruses? a invisable to even most microscopes thing that isn't even technically alive can get in and kill something as large as a grizzly bear. What about prions? a group of non-living atoms can get in a kill a cow, or a human, or any other living thing. While I see you statement that 'big claws' can mean 'top of food chain', I do not see how the disaster precipitated this. nor do I see the connection between biggest claws and innately at the top of the food chain. Bonobos are very peaceful primates, and yet they are that the top of the food chain in their area. Gorillas can be violent when defending themselvs, but they are largley (if not entirely) vegiterians. if the disaster is what is causing these problems, how do you explain the 5 major extinctions in known earth history? The earth has show signs of predation during the Caimbrian, then after each of the major extinctions. Let me asume that you are correct for a second. The world was created such that plants create food by photosynthesis, animals eat plants, and people eat animals. I see a problem with that in our teeth. Humans have canine teeth, as do cats, dogs, and mamny other mamels. if animals were supposed to eat plants, how/why did they end up with teeth like ours? If the Asteroid impact that supposedly cuased the last major extinction is also the cause of these problems in the world today, then why did dinosaurs (alive prior to the asteroid, and very possibly killed off as a result of the impact) eat each other? why did they have dagger-like teeth for eating other animals? Throughout this whole argument, I'd say that humans weren't around at the time of the disaster. Either Humans came around in the last 400,000 years, or humans that lived before then were able to make no lasting impression on their environment, be it by dieing and leaving bones, or by eating animals, and leaving cut marks on their bones, etc. No perminant structures, no rock carving, nothing. I am more than willing to believe you, make no mistake. but there are currently alot of questions in your theory that are open for debate. Until they are answered, no one in the scientific comunity will believe you. If you can convinse me, I will go spead the word. I just need to information to explain these new ideas. [edit ] also, where do army ants fit in? They are eaten by anteaters, birds, frogs, etc, but can, at time, band together as a unit, and eat cows, Jaguars, and even people.
Re: Re: The Vicious Cycle Who told you the Cambrian came before disaster? There were several disasters and the first goes way back. Evolutionist fake data. Bacteria and viruses are the simplest and least complex life on earth. Better to be a cat river-wind than a slime ball. They are not equal. That 'big claws' mean 'top of food chain', the disaster precipitated because it then became a fight for life, obviously. Its true that the most violent are not at the top always but not because of bad conditions. Good conditions support good qualities and bad bad qualities. The disaster is a bad quality suporting evet. I said, the world was created with animals eat plants, and people eat plants. You said the world was created with people eat animals. That is your idea not mine. Stop misquoting me please. The world started out as a paradose and at peace, not with preditors in a pre Cambrian era like you said. Please don't twist things
First of all, don't clump bacteria and viruses together. They are not the same. Secondly, bacteria are the most successful organisms on the planet. They can live almost anywhere, including in volcanoes, and vents at the bottom of the ocean. They evolve and adapt quickly, overcoming all obstacles that we can put in their path (some of them are even resistant to phagocytosis). Some can live for hundreds of years by sealing off their genetic material into spores that can resist temperature fluctuations of over 100 degrees. Viruses are not alive. They do not metabolize, or replicate on their own. What evidence do you have to support this?
First of all, you make a greater distinction between a virus and bacteria than you do between humans and bacteria. Apparently you identify with the bacteria and rightly so. We are not the same. Secondly, HUMANS are the most successful organisms on the planet. They are intelligent and adapt quickly, overcoming all obstacles that you can put in their path. . Viruses are alive. They do not metabolize, or replicate on their own but exist parasitically much like the bacteria crawling around in your mouth. Finally the world started out as a paradise and at peace. What evidence do you have to refute this? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I assumed that you were intelligent enough to draw the distinction between humans and bacteria. However, there was clarification needed in distinguishing between viruses and bacteria. Yes, but if you remove the host, the bacteria will live on and continue to grow, while the virus will not. You realize that if you make a claim, you are the one with the burden of providing evidence backing it up. I simply asked where for sources on your claim.
no.... as deist said earlyer , there is somthing above us in the "chain" - the forth from plant , animal , human = <NATURAL DISASTER> what kills us off the most? proberbly ourselves but were not above ourselves in the chain...thats just silly , animals kill each other to....so what next that has nothing to do with us and for some reason we cant seem to beat it nor predict? NATURAL DISASTER , it kills us - it is above us and we cant do nothing about it. just like them poor wolves when we eat them......
theArrivalofWisdom That grammatical trainwreck of a post doesn't even warrant a response. You need to be clearer in your ideas. That is seriously twisted.
Re: Re: Re: The Vicious Cycle oops, sorry, I though you have mentioned the Cambrian explosion as "before the desaster" If you did not say that, my apologies for mis-representing your point. and sorry about mistaking the food source of people in your original position. I mis-understood you. ok, then, so both people and animals ate plants. then there was a disater, and the planet began to die. then animals began to eat each other, and people started to eat animals. suffering insued. question 1: again, why do both animals and people have teeth specifically designed for eating meat? canine teeth are terrible for tearing leaf matter (I have been vegetarian for a number of years, I can say from expirience) question 2: If the planet is dying with out our help, what can we do to heal it? question 3: if the disaster happened prior to the Cambrian, then were people not around yet? then was this original time of peace devoid of human life? if so, then it wouldn't be "animals and humans ate plants" it would be "aniumals ate plants", then disaster, then carnavorism, then people arrive. The timeline isn't making sense for me. and specifically why is it better to be a cat than to be a bacteria? Bacteria don't have nervous sytems, so they can't be tortured for days, like a few people like to do to cats. Cats can, however, enjoy the sunlight of a spring day. I'd say it's a trade off. While from my human perspective, I'd rather pet a cat then a bacterial colony, from the perspective of my new being, I wouldn't care which I was w/o a human intelect to analise my situation.
Exactly, I hate to break it to you deist, but in reality, YOU are mother earth's BITCH. I don't take kindly to people bad mouthing the planet, it owns you, you owe everything to earth, it made you and it can kill you, by way of tornado or bear or whatever. Humans are anything but the admirable beings you like to elevate them to. Quite the opposite. Is a rapist "greater" than his victim? Your "layer" system makes me sick. plants then animals then humans? Humans are animals, it doesn't matter what they appear to be to you, who are you to assign anything with a greater importance than anything else? You don't know anything. For all you know we could universally be considered the lowliest dirtiest most evil cowardly organism on the planet, river-wind's comment about people torturing cats makes that seem like a more reasonable assumption. Its the people that "rank" things and decide humans are the best that have destroyed this planet in the first place. We would be alot better off without them.
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Vicious Cycle I postulate that humans have teeth characteristic of omnivores and not carnivores.
Protection From The Fourth Level The fourth level is spiritual and they enter our world using the human mind. Therefore we can do something about it. Here is how... Typical meditation is to chant a word or a phrase and simply repeat the sound over and over again. The practice is like watching a pendulum swing back and forth over and over while undergoing hypnosis. Thus meditation is a type of hypnosis. Anything can be used as Mantra, same as anything can be used in place of the swinging pendulum. Techniques given to Pacific Islanders and the American Indians use the repetition of beating drums to achieve the same results. Yet who is in control of the self-hypnotized mind when these methods are used? Many teachers give Mantras that are actual names of spirits. In his younger days, Maharishi Mahesh Yoga publicly admitted that chanting his Mantras are ways to summon the spirits. Because of objections, he changed their name to Natural Laws and Vibrations. Yet proof is found visiting India where you may see your Mantra written on a shopkeeper's wall for the purpose of receiving protection from that spirit. Meditators are therefore calling on the gods BY NAME during meditation. These spirit creatures come into their minds and take control of their life! Know that unity with Natural Law is unity with pagan gods. Know that quiet inner voice is of demonic origin speaking from within. Every culture has their own god or gods with many techniques for making contact. From the normal thinking state of mind, without effort, you enter into the non-thinking state of pure consciousness. This is where all thoughts have ceased. (No doubt the same as the hypnotized state of mind.) You are given a single thought or rhythm to focus on, perhaps a Mantra, and told to repeat over and over until you enter the hypnotic state of pure consciousness. At this point all thoughts have ceased. You are not even thinking the Mantra any longer. The mental pendulum has served its purpose. Your mind is now cleared, void of all individual thoughts and open to ANY suggestion. The intellectual side of your brain, the ability to discern and make decisions based on reason, is turned off. You are now open to possession by the spirit mind. Some disagree with who is in control of the hypnotized mind during meditation? Some claim meditators are in greater control of their own mind. Yet they can't be in control because their thoughts are turned off. Without thinking abilities one can only follow. Perhaps a collective-consciousness or society makes the suggestions. Maybe society, yet who directs societal evolution? If a god’s name is chanted, a particular spirit has been summoned to come into their mind and enter the world through them. Thus a spirit controls, not only the meditators mind, but gains a certain amount of control over society. What if another technique is used instead of an ancient gods name? Remember any type of repetition can achieve the same hypnotic state. In these cases, any spirit close by or most in tune with that individuals' mind is most likely to gain control. In every case, a god or gods can now operate from within and manipulate society using the meditator as a Medium. Chanters become like gateways, channels for the spirits to come through and have their alien effect on our world. After summoning spirits through meditation, Sidhas are now ready to begin a more advanced technique. Sutra is a word or phrase of action addressed to those spirits requesting the performance that Sutra for the Sidha’s benefit. Examples of Sutras are “Peace on Earth” and “Show Compassion”. After meditation, they begin repeating a series of Sutras at regular intervals addressed in the presence of their summoned god(s) to perform that action for them. In effect, they timidly start begging the spirits to fulfill their desires. That is how their advanced program works. How disgraceful! What a humiliating way to achieve personal wants. Now understood, magic should no longer be called magic but science, actually a super-technology operating from within certain individuals. We do not know all the technical aspects the spirits are using on the human mind, but we now have a basic understanding. We now have enough knowledge to make any mystic with good intentions renounce these practices immediately. For the protection of us all from the fourth level, please stop what you are doing NOW!
That must have been some good crack you were smoking. You base that entire post, which you obviously copied and pasted from somewhere, on the belief that spirits exist. How about a source?
You must be smoking dope with the lunatic fringe. Your are responsible for the destruction of the earth. Your left wing idiot ideas burned down thousands of acres of old growth forests last summer. get a life pervert
