I think this is a good place as any to discuss gun control, since if USA didn't have free guns for everybody then this could have been prevented. And that I say because in countries where regular citizens are not allowed to bear arms these type of killings doesn't happen as much. We have the exception in Finland though, many shootings in schools and public areas, and I believe Finland has pretty much the same gun laws as in Sweden, not sure though, should look that up. Needless to say, this is a growing trend. Why do you think it is so? More information that has come forth is that he was wearing a bullet proof vest. Why would he be wearing a bullet proof vest if he was going to kill himself anyway? Maybe he was doubting wether to stay alive or not and wore it just in case he would decide to stay alive after the killings? Or maybe one of the teachers managed to shoot him and the police decided to tell the public he killed himself instead? I'm speculating wildly now. Just so you know. But it's something to consider. I think it's common procedure in many countries, not known to the public though, that if a killer in a situation like this is still alive they will take him out asap, no questions asked.
Randwolf: You really want primary-school teachers to tote guns? You really think that would be the best solution? It boggles the mind. Where do you propose these guns be kept in the school? Better keep them on hand at all times, just to be sure, right? So, I guess you want all primary teachers to wear a holster somewhere - maybe shoulder holster would be best. What do you think? They'd need to be ready to whip out that firearm at a moment's notice, though, so maybe a hip holster? Or maybe a high-powered rifle in the classroom cupboard next to the art supplies would be better. Would you worry at all about the schoolkids potentially getting hold of any of these weapons? Or about accidental discharges? If not, how do you think safety could be guaranteed? But maybe we're going about this the wrong way. Why not give every primary school child his or her own personal pistol for protection against threats? And while we're at it, let's make uniform laws to allow anybody to shoot anybody else if they feel threatened. Never mind if they are threatened or not - feeling threatened should be sufficient justification to kill somebody, don't you think? Several states already have such laws, I hear. Yeah, when all primary school kids have a gun, then America will be a "polite" society where nobody ever gets shot. Congratulations, Randwolf. You've solved the problem of gun violence in America! Well done.
You have used the word polite society. , It would be a society of fear and each other will arm themselves to the teeth. Why not teach the kids from the beginning the fear of God this way we will not need of any weapons . We here are becoming more secular , so we don't have to answer to any body for our behavior.
Some facts regarding mass shootings: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund
Personally, I find this all to be very interesting information... I don't want to say that having people with guns WOULD have helped... but I know for a fact taking them away from law abiding citizens DOES NOT HELP.
I agree. The old bumper-sticker slogan was correct: "When guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns". The logic cannot be argued with - no matter what anyone wants to say or believe. The bad guys will ALWAYS find a gun if they want one. All the guns in the world cannot be just magically wished away.
And how would you have prevented him from buying a "Saturday night special" in the corner of some dark alley? It's done every single day all across the world.
Curious to know how you would propose we do that... You make it more difficult to buy a gun, then less proper and right-minded citizens will own them... criminals will still steal and/or "obtain" them through other methods. Ban guns entirely and force them to be turned in, and the law-abiding citizens will turn them in... criminals won't... Last time I checked, Rape, Murder, Cocaine, and a host of other things are already illegal... those laws haven't stopped them from happening... laws banning guns will not stop gun crimes. It didn't work in England, it won't work here.
It's been done before, and it worked. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.examiner.com/article/arming-teachers-worked-for-israel-and-thailand?cid=rss
Allow me to make a quick point here: I live in the U.S. and have only been to London, England twice in my life. Yet I know exactly what part of town to head to to buy a gun. I'm sure others here know as well.
Wow. An in depth reply to a rather flippant response from me.. My post was a foray into fantasy inspired primarily by the earlier reference to "Israel's answer". I know this would never even approach feasibility in the "real world" but the thought of armed Rambo teachers giving the what-for to would be assailants has a certain visceral appeal. More realistic solutions would probably include education, psychological evaluations and harsher licensing procedures regulating US gun ownership. Unfortunately, the wild west attitude prevalent here precludes enactment of most sane proposals. We value our second amendment "rights" way more than children's lives - haven't you heard? This leaves the US in somewhat of a quandary. What sort of change would be politically feasible AND effective? None that I've heard lately. Stricter background checks? Licensing? Totally ineffective... Look at the case in point here - the shooter didn't even own the guns. It's nearly as easy to get a firearm "on the street" as it is to obtain marijuana. Either we physically and drastically reduce the sheer number of guns in the country or we address a society in which 85% of the populace is potentially armed at any given time. If it's the latter remember that 85% includes some seriously deranged people capable of just about anything. Shall we meet them with kindness and understanding? Or force on force? I don't have a clue and apparently much brighter minds than mine are at a loss as well. SOME sort of systemic change is due but I'm at a loss as to how to enact such. Might as well ponder "Why can't we all just get along?"
Admittedly... in the US, kids are pretty defenseless in school anyway. Let's face it... what can teachers do as it stands? They see two kids get into a fist fight... they can't physically intervene without threat of being fired and possible sued by the parents. In my high school, knife fights were a weekly occurance... our janitorial team got damn good at cleaning up blood... and I wasn't in a "bad" school all things considered. My mother works in a city school... and there, if kids get into a fist fight, all they can do is call the cops and try to talk the kids down... if they physically try to stop the fight, they can be fired. *shrugs* America - land of the bass-ackwards
The cinima shooting is the perfect example of why idiots with weapons would have made things worse. If everyone had been armed in a dark cinima the gunman could have killed WAY more people by shoting a few times into the roof and then walking away and letting the retards shot eachother because you know friend from foe in a dark cinima where you aren't coordinated how exactly? In a lighted school with teachers who know eachother you MIGHT have a SMALL better chance but once again solders in Afghanistan have been Killed by turncoats on a regualar basis even though they are well armed, trained and know that the danger is there so how much better will teachers who are minimally trained be?
I'm curious about something Asguard. Have you ever fired a weapon? In any setting? Medics typically dislike guns - understandably so. Nonetheless, simple distaste does not qualify you to speak knowledgeably on gun control. It's quite possible that an armed off duty police officer or soldier on leave could have prevented much of the bloodshed at the theater and other mass shooting incidents. How can you argue that taking the target out half way through the first clip wouldn't have been the right course of action?
israel is the very last eample of what we should do. it a completely militerized society with all the attendent pros and cons.
I don't see an arms race between civilians and perpetrators as a sane answer. I don't understand how mental health is so easily dismissed, when it's always a factor somehow. Just because someone wasn't seeking help for their problems doesn't mean they weren't suffering from a problem that led to their actions. And that's the point...lots of people need help for things that can't or won't get it, because we treat mental health like it's some secret problem that no one should talk about, or throw medication at it to cover up the symptoms.
