Russian Jets Buzz US Destroyer

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Yazata, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The sailors on the destroyer took some pretty spectacular photos. These passes must have been loud!

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    The ship was a US 'Arleigh Burke' class AEGIS destroyer that probably could have splashed these jets if it had wanted to. Of course the jets could have been carrying anti-ship missiles too. They appear to be Sukhoi SU-24s, probably from Russian naval aviation.

    I don't know why the Russians did this, but I can speculate. Presumably they were expressing their displeasure with the ship being in the Baltic about 70 miles west of Kaliningrad. Looking at the map tells me that's international waters near Poland's Hel peninsula, north of Gdansk. That's where Poland's most important ports are located. So they were implicitly sending a message to Poland too.

    Poland's become a US friend. Russia will just have to get used to it.

    http://www.defense.gov/News-Article...ers-aggressive-russian-aircraft-in-baltic-sea
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Pilots get bored.
    My ex partner was attached to an anti sup aviation unit when in the navy. Just for fun, they would occasionally buzz a soviet sub with the bomb bay doors open. I wouldn't read too much into this.
     
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  5. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    the ship was on a training mission with a polish helicopter when when they did that. they were just being dicks. and this ir a realy stupid thing to do.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, Soviet subs really couldn't tell whither the bomb bay doors were open or not, especially if it were submerged. So I don't know what the point would be. Back in the day, during the Cold War, Soviet and NATO forces did routinely test each other. The US routinely tracked Soviet subs. And then there was the Cuban missile crisis when US vessels actually dropped depth charges to harass Soviet subs (i.e. an invitation to surface which they eventually did). But this...this is different. Russians are playing a very dangerous game. They could have easily lost one or more of their aircraft. They could have hit the American vessel and that would have caused an escalation, not to mention the loss of their aircraft and much more. It most certainly would have led to more sanctions - sanctions Mother Russia can ill afford. Maybe the West would respond by cutting Mother Russia out of the international payments system. If Mother Russia thinks things are bad now, they haven't seen anything yet.

    Moreover, and perhaps more significantly, this incidents could be evidence of severe lack of discipline within the Russian military. In any case, if Mother Russia continues down this path, it could well lose more aircraft in the near future. NATO may well take down another Russian aircraft or Russian warplanes may collide with civilian aircraft. Mother Russia should have learned a lesson in Turkey.

    If Mother Putina wants to continue down this path, NATO could easily return the favor and in spades.

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  8. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The Russians did this on two different days, April 11 and 12. On the first day, SU-24s made "numerous" passes over the ship. The ship was operating helicopers at the time and this had to be halted for safety. On the second day a Russian helicopter flew repeatedly in circles around the ship, then the SU-24s reappeared and made 11 very close passes overhead. Two jets participated each day and the Navy characterized their maneuvers as "simulated attack profiles". I still think that a message was being sent.

    http://www.defense.gov/News-Article...ers-aggressive-russian-aircraft-in-baltic-sea
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  9. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    its nice to know russia didn't learn its lesson from the turkey incident and is still trying to provoke other countries. eventually they keep this up they are going to start a war they can't win.
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'd locate their ships and do a fly over with a few of our own planes.
     
  11. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    Bad idea. There is no need to escalate things. a war between 2 nuclear powers is not something we should be trying to cause.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It would be a mistake not to. Not retaliating tells Putina his behavior is acceptable. He interprets a failure to respond as a weakness.

    Putina is mimicking Hitler. This is some serious shit. The West shouldn't repeat the mistakes which led to WWII.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
  13. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    i'm not saying we should appease him but escalating is just childish and makes look weak. strong countries don't need to engage in what amounts to a dick waving contest we have other better means of showing him we aren't cowed. oh like increasing our presence with out allies bordering russia. or i don't lighting up the offending aircraft with the targeting radar of the ships AA. but delibrately engaging high risk antics is not the proper response.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Russians are Russians, whether they're Tsarists or Soviets or whatever the hell they are now.
     
  15. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Why are we there ? how would we like if Russian ship come close to Miami ?
    We have a habit provoking other but they should not provoke us .
    Remember the incident of Russian missiles in Cuba .
    Let Europa or Asia handle their business , and we can handle our own .
     
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  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    If you don't show that you aren't afraid of them then you are looking like a real loser.
     
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Were you a live during the missile crisis during the 1960 , or perhaps you were not born at that time
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I was. The US drew a red line and it wasn't crossed.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    We were in international waters. Is there anything wrong with being in international waters? Do you not know why the US Navy was created? Do you not know its charter? The US Navy was created to protect US commercial interests abroad. The US accounts for nearly a quarter of all world commerce. We have commercial interests all over the world. That's why the US Navy was there. Additionally, there is this thing called NATO which exists to prevent another world war.

    If history has taught us anything, it should have taught us that we cannot ignore the world, and we shouldn't appease fascists dictators. And then there is that old idiom about those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it thingy. We cannot afford to repeat world wars I and II. WW III should be avoided if possible. But succumbing to two bit petty dictators isn't living either. The only thing a bully respects is force. If Western powers had not been so accommodating to Hitler, there may never have been a second world war.
     
  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    It is great to do business all over the world . Let remember this times are not the same as in the past . ( I can discuss with you about WWI and WW II and the motives but not now ) Both country have same kind of mass destruction weapons and both country have same delivery system . Is it worthed to risk a mass of killing of humanity for caprichos demonstration challenge and an opportunity to fall in an error ?
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    News: life is a risk. That's no reason not to live it.

    PS: Both countries do no have the same kinds of weapons. Both countries have nuclear weapons, but that's about where it ends. The US has superior weapons and superior delivery and defense systems and it has more of them. People like you remind me of my boot camp days. My squad leader was a bully and he bunked above me. He and I got along well. Initially he took a smack at me just to see what I would do, but I struck back and I had no problem with the guy. We developed an understanding. But another guy in my squad wouldn't strike back and he basically became my squad leaders servant and lived in fear of displeasing the man. He shined is shoes. He did everything for my squad leader. He basically became my squad leaders slave. If you want to be Putin's bitch...fine...move to Mother Russia. During my 10 years as an EMT in one of the nation's most violent cities, I've confronted a number of bullies. The only thing bullies respect, and Putina is a bully is strength. Some of the biggest cowards I have ever known are bullies.

    Do you want to give Putina New York just because he might do something bad with his nuclear weapons? How about California? Hell why not give him all of North America and Europe? God forbid we should ever piss off Mother Putina because he might use his nukes. If you want to live in Mother Russia move to Mother Russia. China has nuclear weapons too, should we not stand up to China too? What if China wants us to do one thing and Mother Putina another? Where does it end? It gets pretty silly pretty fast. Putina is counting on people like you. Hitler and Imperial Japan thought Americans were weak and decadent. They found out differently. It would be a mistake, a grievous mistake to not retaliate. Not responding is telling Putina his misbehavior is ok and he will continue to escalate. How much more does it take before he gets a response? He'll keep pushing until he gets pushed back. After Turkey shot down his warplane, Putina's pilots suddenly learned how to avoid Turkish airspace.

    We should learn from history.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  22. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Your superior weapon are of no value for those people who would be of consolation for those people who would be killed by a spear or a sable , Have you in reality seand destroyed city during a war. It does not seam you have . We are blessed on this continent we have not seen destruction that is why people like you relay on my toys are better than your . By the way I doubt you have children ready for military , I remember parents were reluctant to sent their children to Viet Nam ,when the sons and daughter were drafted to go to Viet Nam .
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think you understood, that isn't the point. But our weapons are better in every respect. I'll reiterate once again for your edification. At what point to you draw the line? As long as there are no consequences for misbehavior, Mother Putina will continue to misbehave. He will continue to push the line. It's what fascist dictators do. It's what Hitler did. Unless you are willing to throw down our advanced and more abundant weaponry and just surrender, a line needs to be drawn. And every delay in drawing that line weakens your credibility. The Allied Powers did that with Hitler and the result was WWII. That's the point.

    In addition to that, we do have better weapons and defense systems. We do have a bigger and better military. Why do we have them if we are just going to surrender to whomever has a nuclear weapon? Why don't we surrender to China or to India or Pakistan? They have nukes too. If you want to live in any of those countries, you should move there. You should live there.

    Yeah, I have seen the destruction warfare can bring. I served during the Vietnam War. I know what war is. I lived through the Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis. As I told you before and explained why, one needs to draw lines in life, and this is one of them. We should learn from history.

    You are missing the point. Unless you are willing to surrender to anyone who has a nuclear weapon just because they have a nuclear weapon, a line needs to be drawn and it needs to be drawn early, because Mother Putina will not respect that line if we don't. Delay destroys our credibility.

    PS: I have a son serving in the military. I have cousins who have served and have children serving in the military. My cousins and their children have served in Afghanistan and Iraq. Additionally, I worked on the streets of a large and very violent US City as a paramedic for 10 years. I have seen a lot of mayhem. I know what it's like to be shot at and attacked and all the evil things humanity can do and has done. So that dog won't hunt.

    We should learn from our history.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016

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