Right Handed Spiral Galaxies are Preferred

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by danshawen, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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  3. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    Every dynamic interaction in this universe has a translational and a rotational component, and while there may be no preferred inertial reference frame, or for that matter, inertia, in empty space, the conservation of angular momentum still has meaning, and a center of rotation is the only vestige left of a 19fh concept of absolute space.

    This (preferred rotation direction) of spiral galaxies).means something. What is it?
     
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  5. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    No, it does not. Every galaxy is both right and left rotating - that just depends on from which side you view it.

    For example, looking at a clear plastic clock, from the back side, the hands go around CCW.
     
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  7. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    The researchers took that simple fact (CW, CCW) into account, obviously. These galaxies sorted themselves between the two respective spin orientations, and the designation is arbitrary. But if you wish to designate "right" as "left", and vice versa, we understand what you mean. Aussies aren't standing upside down on their island continent; we are.
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    It is not a question of semantics, but a fact that the direction of rotation of any rotating object is reveresed when viewed from the other side of the plane of rotation.
     
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  9. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    And a cyclone has an opposite spin direction than a hurricane as well. This does not prohibit you from counting the average number of each in each hemisphere and performing a valid statistical analysis. If there is a disparity, there must be a reason, or even several reasons, for it.
     
  10. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    Not if you look at one from underneath! But seriously...

    Dan, did you even read your first link or just the title, fom that link? When they flipped the images and cloud sourced it again, the results should also have been the opposite, but they remained biased toward a right hand twist. Thus from that same link, but not I the title,

    In the words of Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." The bias is real, but it's due to human observers rather than a physical bias in spiral galaxies.

    The article was a cleverly hidden commentary on how we observers prefer right hand to left and our bias turns up in how we see the world.., or in this case at least, how we see the handedness of spiral galaxies.

    Billy was right and to argue otherwise, becomes........, well it demonstrates your own bias or perhaps just maybe that you did not actually read, at least the first linked article, without bias. (I did not waste time on the second article, after reviewing the discussion and then checking the first link.)
     
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  11. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    So, an analysis like this one literally could not be done? Why is that?

    Ignore the handedness issue. Once we really know the composition of dark matter, start adding up the angular momenta. Which direction of rotation will be the resultant?

    This could be done without flipping any galaxies more than 90 degrees.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  12. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    With arxiv:1104.2815 and arxiv:1104.0539 we have already several completely different effects which point to a preferred direction in the global universe.

    I like it, because my ether theory has some preferred direction too.
     
  13. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    Without some means to positively identify the orientation of a galaxy's magnetic field, which is the arbitrary means that we use to define our own direction of rotation.., there is no way to know if there is any preferred direction of rotation. We never know whether we are looking at the top or bottom aspect, until we establish some arbitrary but uniform definition of top and bottom. Until then we remain stuck with the bails already established, of human observers.
     
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  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    How do other observed effects relate to any preferred direction of rotation?
    How do they relate to the question of any universal rotation at all?
    How does the observed accelerated expansion relate to this question?Does the topological shape of whether the universe is open, closed relate to this question?
    Whether Omega is greater, lesser or equal to one have a say?

    Collapsing clouds of interstellar gas and debris formed our Sun and the stars.
    It is thought that the impetus of these collapses [at least some of them] were by the blast waves of nearby S/N explosions.
    There is no reason to believe that those same S/N explosions would instigate a "preferred" direction with stars and/or galaxies. In fact it would be silly to infer that.

    If the universe itself is does have angular momentum, I don't believe it would be at all related to any preferred direction of spin for the matter/energy within the universe.

    The following is an interesting paper though and reflects on what I have speculated on in the past.

    http://arxiv.org/abs/1410.3881

    Universe in a black hole with spin and torsion:
    ABSTRACT:

    The conservation law for the angular momentum in curved spacetime requires that the antisymmetric part of the affine connection (the torsion tensor) is a variable in the principle of least action. The coupling between spin and torsion generates gravitational repulsion in fermionic matter at extremely high densities and avoids the formation of singularities in black holes. We show that every black hole in the presence of torsion forms a nonsingular, closed, nearly flat, homogeneous, and isotropic universe on the other side of its event horizon. Quantum particle production in such a universe can generate a period of exponential expansion which creates an enormous amount of matter in that universe. Accordingly, our Universe may have originated from the interior of a black hole existing in another universe.
     
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  15. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    ...maybe you could email Nikodem Popławski those questions...
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The Universe is many times larger [perhaps infinite] then what we observe.
    If there is a "biased" direction of rotation, than it is pot luck......If we could see further, any bias may be negated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  17. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    ...Seriously..." a "preferred" direction of rotation "...??!!

    Just as an aside, is there " a "preferred" direction of rotation " for the planet Earth?
     
  18. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    Everything else in the universe spins or rotates, so if the whole thing didn't have a net rotation, that in itself would be very interesting, to say the least.

    I'm a little surprised that paddo has the idea that it does not.

    You know, the increasing acceleration at cosmological distances could either be from an increase in the rate at which parts of the known universe are moving away from each other, OR, it could also be an increase in the rate at which it is spinning, as unlikely as that idea might seem.

    On the scale of galaxies, we already know that dark matter is needed in order to keep spiral galaxies together at higher angular velocities nearest the outer edges, so why shouldn't it work the same way for the entire known universe? Is there really any good reason to think that dark matter doesn't exist everywhere, particularly if dark energy manifestly does?

    Things falling toward gravitating bodies have a pretty good chance of achieving orbit instead of smacking onto them dead on. Why shouldn't the same dynamics work in the other direction (with inflation's superforce)?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    That than infers a preferred axis of rotation.
    And the BB being an evolution of space and time as we know them, rather than any conventional explosion, I see as deflating your universal angular momentum suggestion.
    Your suggestion that the data showing that we are accelerating could be confused with spinning....How could that be?
    And what if the Universe is infinite? [just as WMAP tells us it is]
    None at all.
     
  20. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    @ Billy T
    @ Only Me

    a "preferred direction of rotation"...
    a "preferred axis of rotation"...

    ...spinning evidently can make some people dizzy...
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    If the Universe was spinning, it would be spinning with reference to other Universes. But even in the event of other universes being discovered or evidenced, does not enforce we must have angular momentum within our universe.
    Also according to the BB, it was the evolution of space and time...we had no matter to have any angular momentum in that first instant.
    Although one could ask the question if the law of conservation of angular momentum applies, to when matter condenses out of energy as happened according to the BB and the decoupling of the Superforce?
     
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  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I don't accept any "preferred" direction of rotation, with anything in the Universe, nor any rotation of the universe/spacetime itself, as that denotes a "preferred" axial of rotation.
    Cosmology would need to be rewritten [as some here are plainly keen to do

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ] and as yet all we are doing is speculating. Perhaps a future QGT may tell us more.
     
  23. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Are you suggesting that Paddoboy flicked these questions from Nikodem Poplawski work ? The inclusion of question with 'omega' in it appears to be a give away?
     

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