Religion is stupid

False, you may remember I pointed out that the Piraha people of the Amazon do not have a religion or mythology. They do not believe anything they haven't seen or that someone still alive (that they trust) has witnessed.

 

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Yeah. I remember.

/gets out of the way of the rush of atheists beating a path to Piraha society

 

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So your premise is disproven, they have been around at least a thousand years or so.

 

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And you know that this has been their belief all along how?

 

Come on S.A.M., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people

 

These are the same people who are unable to count. How do they measure anything including the number of years they've been around?

 

Does culture derive from religion or vice-versa?

 

They have interesting personal experiences as well:

So they see spirits and have no concept of absract thought.


http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/272-What-the-Pirah-saw.html

 

Yes, they see spirits. But it hasn't degenerated into a religion yet.

 

Some cultures have a religious base, because religion has become so pervasive. But that's a chicken and egg thing really. We could not know about culture without religion simply because we lack the physical record. But it seems that the Piraha have their own culture without religion, so it's possible to have a culture without religion.

 

No, which is why they have different notions of laws of nature. Quite interesting really, if you cannot conceive of physical laws, do they really exist?

If you perceive things that others cannot, what defines perception? Or even reality?

Is reality defined by abstract thought? Is an areligious society independent of abstract concepts and has instead a realm of spirits?

 

That's subjective to a Christian missionaries understanding of what they were talking about at that time. His view point wasn't the Piraha view point and it may have been something entirely different.

As for "needing" numbers, what for? Do we need to know how old we are, or do we need to just understand that in our social hierarchy, she came before I did. She was here before me, and is therefor my elder? If we trade, only the value of the item is important not the number or weight. I can see how a society can live without numbers if you look at it objectively, just as I can see a live without religious influence if I look at it objectively. I don't come from an indoctrinated background so it's easier for me to not apply my beliefs when I don't have anything to believe either way.

 

Or could it be as simply as a hallucination based on something they ate collectively? Maybe it was someone's wash caught in the right light?

But maybe it was just the interpretation of one Christian missionary.

 

You need numbers to use this computer, for one thing..

Maybe. Or maybe thats just the kind of society that lack of belief gives you

Perhaps ignorance truly is bliss?

 

But they don't need computers, and they are "some of the brightest, pleasantest, most fun-loving people that I know.", as per Mr. Everett. And all that, without religion

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Doesn't seem like a society on the verge of falling apart, does it to you?

 

You're right. I suppose you'll be joining them soon? Taking your kids out of school and sending them there?

 

That's the book I read, by Everett. He visited as a missionary in order to learn their language and translate the Bible into Piraha. As a result of his experience, he became an atheist.

 

You know, that question seems to parallel the question:
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Allow us to ponder it's infinity.

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I'd have to say culture is derived from religion. IIRC, even the earliest, earliest form of man probably worshipped the sun, in a sense thanking it for giving them warmth that sustains all life.

 

he probably thought that was easier than translating the Bible! atheism, that is.

Mr. everett got to Numbers and said "F*** that!"

 

Why would religion precede culture? From an atheists mindset, endemically. Are we at a dawn of a new age? !000's of years of societies and we are now breaking through-that is what I hear. Coincidentally we live (USA) in a society that allows for that thought. very interesting.