I'm actually hoping to find a good way of describing an idea I've been pondering, but any argument on the idea itself would be helpful too! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! often times, western philosophy has the idea that everything happens "for a reason", in the sense that the Judeo-Christina-Islamic God has a plan for th world, so if something bad happens, it's ok, because it part of a good overall plan. I always hated that idea, because I never had any faith in anything growing up, let alone an old man sitting on a cloud, but still able to see everything around the world. However, as time went on, and bad things happened in my life, I started to agree with the gernal principal. It seems to me that everything *does* happen for a reason. But here come the sticking point- the reason itself is created as the event takes place, not before. There doesn't need to be an overall plan or a omnicient creator for events, both bad and good, to have a purpose. The purpose of any event is that is shapes the people, animals, plants - the world, universe, everything. So it's purpose is to change the world. Wherther for bad or good, once the event happens, the world is changed. In a large or small way, it is different that it was before the event took place. its purpose has been served, and things are different. So everything happens for a purpose, though that purpose may not be defined until the event takes place, and it may never be specifically mapped out - the events that created the planet are still effecting us who live on it, but not all of those effects are defined yet. It's sort of a hard concept to explain, because you are saying that there was a purpose for this terrible thing, but the specifics aren't going to ever fully be defined. you can only really take and shape the purpose of the event as best you can over the course of your life without any expectation of understanding the things you are doing in the sense of an overall world view. I don't even know if that makes sense, but I can say it provides a bit of security and confort to consider- no matter how bad I screw up, it still has a purpose- others can learn from my mistakes, if nothing else. I just try to learn from those mistakes myself, then I'm all good. does anyone understand what I mean? Can anyone put it into words better than the above? If you think I'm stupid and should shut up, tell me that too, please. thanks!
events brought on by nature are natural events of the physical world we live in, and we adjust... for each of these events does have a cause and a reason... events brought on by humans seem much more complicated, yes, we should learn from our mistakes, as well as the mistakes of others; and yes we should learn from the achievements as well; how far have we developed as a human race, how have you developed as an individual everything in nature happens for a reason, and we accept it; everything that mankind does happens for a reason, and we should learn from it here is an excerpt from a poem by armand trawick: "our time spent here on Earth is but a fleeting moments passing an experience of being human living within the garden of nature my how time flies keeping it within perspective witness to human nature the good and the bad look out into the stars and you will know of this creation feel deep within your soul and you will know what is to come do not be fooled by injustice or let despair cloud your focus you will be reunited in your passing you will feel love as never before" does everything happen for a reason? do I take responsibility for my actions? meditation may reveal a seperate journey of nature and a seperate journey of man
I think I understand you. I am a nominalist and a hard determinist, but my Taoist philosophy tends to say that the best way to look at things in life is through retroactive teleology; i.e. always say "I meant to do that," or, "I was hoping that would happen." If you do otherwise, all you can do is sit there and lament the time you've lost; if you just go with the flow, you can always justifiably feel that everything is going well.
lao are you promoting the act of wilfully deluding oneself in order to feel better? perhaps instead of merely looking at life and putting a spin on it, one might live it instead? stray meditation may reveal a seperate journey of nature and a seperate journey of man nice. you pretty much said it. however "may" is the operative word here.
Yes, it is important to let go of the past events that remind you of what you should have done. Letting go of past mistakes will make it easier to attain what you desire in future events. It is important to learn from these past events as well. This is an important tool in personal intellectual growth. We seek to learn how to control our actions, so that we may be more in tune with a peace of mind. We always learn from past events; we should learn how to better ourselves without causeing distress to others. One develops a personal intellectual contemplation to form opinions, primarily from past events. This includes those events that are caused by others, and that we have no control over.
I understand what you mean, although I would be careful with saying "I meant to do that", and instead say "I didn't mean to do that, but it has happened" to get to the same place. Would that not be better?
If an event happens, the reason is the natural laws. but the purpose could be found after it happend. the reason for the storms is the formation of depression. the purpose could be any thing. if it passes thro city and ruins it then that could be said its purpose. if happens to pass thro deserts then too the purpose could be to pass thro the deserts. so purpose could be interpreted anyway u like. why a cause has to produce specific effects is a different game... bye for the time being..!
The way you phrase this sounds like you believe that behind every effect there was not only a cause, but an intelligent decision to influence that cause, and produce the desired effect. I don't see that. There is often perhaps a first cause that can be traced back so far in a chain of events, but not always a series of events by desing beforehand. For example, if I'm out walking and get stung by a poisonous plant, the plant had no desire to, or made no decision to sting me. Do I look further back and see who placed the plant there? Are they to blame, was I stung because they wanted to hurt me? Nope... there's a lot of indirect influence, but many things happen without direct reasons.
This is a very good point, river-wind. For a happening to be this or that particular event, it's essential what causes and what effects it has. Putting some poison in someone's wine is not a murder unless the would-be victim drinks it and a little later dies as a result. Until he's not dead (because of the poison he has drunk) there is no murderer and there is no victim, and there is no event of crime either. This should be the general case with events, it seems. So, seeing it from another angle, you can indeed say that reasons and effects are created as the event takes place.
Understanding the nature of cause and effect = no regrets? I have always said that although I have made quite a few mistakes in my life, I will never regret a single thing I have ever done, because those experiences (good, bad and stupid) shaped who I am at this moment in time. Every moment in my life added together, has come together for the single purpose of creating and defining me. And that may change a few moments from now. We are no more and no less than a collection of the moments we have experienced in our lives.
River Wind - I think you're right. Forgetting 'purpose' for a moment, it the world is deterministic then every event has an immediately proximate cause. Talking about causing someones death by poisoning their drink disguises the almost infinite (perhaps actually infinite) chain of physical events that leads from the pouring of the poison to the moment of dying. How many individual particle interactions have to go right for all that to happen? Can all these events have a purpose as well as a cause at the time they occured, as you suggest? It's perfectly possible as long as you say 'intention' rather than 'purpose' (ultimately the same thing), and if you adopt one of the current forms of panpsychism. The complication is that many events happen because something was done intentionally, in other words were caused by intentional acts, but we're not actually themselves intended. For instance when I dial a wrong number, or when a drug causes side effects (perhaps even the First Effect is an example!). In this way every event has an intentional act somewhere in its ancestry, and every event is deterministically caused, but not every event is intended (caused on purpose). This fits in with the fact that the consequences of any event or act are infinite and completely unpredictable in the long term, whatever the intentions or purposes behind them. I can't find anything illogical in this view.
