Real story behind Columbine

Bitchslapped?
More like being gummed by a toothless sheep that's high and mighty on assumptions. Happens a lot around here.


He knowed he in the wrong on this one though.

 

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Oh? How do you know that?

Millions of years of human civilisation, but no meaningful way of life on offer? Boy, have we failed!

Do we really? What evidence do you have for that? Or are you just proposing yet another theory?

According to the notion that 'life's meaning is something we all have to discover for ourselves, create for ourselves,' - those two students shooting at others did precisely that: discover their own meaning of life. They just did it in a way that isn't generally accepted.

Right back at you.

We could also say that you are scared of what those students at Columbine did, it is too disturbing for you and leaves a feeling of no control so you look for cause and excuses, saying:

 

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Well who decides worth? Well, you just did.


And I never said existential angst was an 'excuse for murder'. It does help to explain it, though.

 

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Well make up your minds guys. I mean the bloody thing is in two threads already!

signal:Millions of years of human civilisation, but no meaningful way of life on offer? Boy, have we failed!

Its an existential postion. society without a forced framework of belief has to find a personal meaning or float in a world of absurdity.

Signal: Well who decides worth? Well, you just did.

No I am indifferent to them as far as that's concerned, they are dead afterall. Others can try and undermine our value but we are the only ones who can throw it away. They threw it away when they established that their lives were not worth living and then they decided that others didn't have a right to their own lives. Nihilistic in the extreme

 

Do you think that this can actually be done?

You don't seem to be indifferent. You say things such as:

That is your evaluation of their situation.

 

Oh yes absolutely it can be done. I'm indifferent to whatever validation they may have felt there actions. You asked me a question who elses evalution would you like me to give?

 

How?

 

This was not a case of existential angst. It's more than a couple of lads listening to to Bauhaus

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D), dressing in black and walking around saying 'woe is me...'


Bullying behaviour
Erratic behaviour
Manipulative behaviour
Incidents of Explosive Anger
Delusions of grandeur - equating selves with 'god' and others with 'zombies'
Talking about suicide and killing
Planning attacks
Broadcasting plans on a website
Threatening to kill fellow students
Stockpiling weapons
Asking experts how to make bombs
Boasting to others about their plans
Writing violently disturbed stories
Making violently disturbed videos

This is no existential angst. Not just a couple of bum grades. This is a catalogue of worryingly disturbed behaviour.

And their behaviour was reported by teachers, and fellow students to the boy's parents and the local police. It appears that no-one did a fig.


Anyway:

"And yet, in spite of all its unanswered questions, some good has come out of Columbine. Young people are speaking up when they see signs that other kids may be planning violence, and police throughout America are being trained to act immediately when a killer takes control of a building - and not to stand by and wait for the SWAT teams to arrive.

Still, Columbine would seem to be the place where we can learn the most about school shootings and how to prevent them in the future."

60 Minutes "Columbine II"

Thanks again to gustav

 

You ask how as if there were some pre-prescribed formula or something.

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You are an individual who has an entire intimate world inside of you engaging with a world outside of you and you ask someone outside to supply it with meaning? If you don't know how to give it meaning don't ask anyone else because it won't be satisfactory. If you want a formula go to the guru or the priest. Who can tell you what is of value? Who can fill you with beauty or imagination? Its all around but still it is you who have to supply IT with meaning.

No one can teach how to create your life.

 

a lack of conscience is a terrible thing......from the words of Dave Cullen himself way back 2004.

Harris and Klebold would have been dismayed that Columbine was dubbed the "worst school shooting in American history." They set their sights on eclipsing the world's greatest mass murderers, but the media never saw past the choice of venue. The school setting drove analysis in precisely the wrong direction.

Fuselier and Ochberg say that if you want to understand "the killers," quit asking what drove them. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were radically different individuals, with vastly different motives and opposite mental conditions. Klebold is easier to comprehend, a more familiar type. He was hotheaded, but depressive and suicidal. He blamed himself for his problems.

Harris is the challenge. He was sweet-faced and well-spoken. Adults, and even some other kids, described him as "nice." But Harris was cold, calculating, and homicidal. "Klebold was hurting inside while Harris wanted to hurt people," Fuselier says. Harris was not merely a troubled kid, the psychiatrists say, he was a psychopath.

In popular usage, almost any crazy killer is a "psychopath." But in psychiatry, it's a very specific mental condition that rarely involves killing, or even psychosis. "Psychopaths are not disoriented or out of touch with reality, nor do they experience the delusions, hallucinations, or intense subjective distress that characterize most other mental disorders," writes Dr. Robert Hare, in Without Conscience, the seminal book on the condition. (Hare is also one of the psychologists consulted by the FBI about Columbine and by Slate for this story*.) "Unlike psychotic individuals, psychopaths are rational and aware of what they are doing and why. Their behavior is the result of choice, freely exercised." Diagnosing Harris as a psychopath represents neither a legal defense, nor a moral excuse. But it illuminates a great deal about the thought process that drove him to mass murder.

.........................

Harris' pattern of grandiosity, glibness, contempt, lack of empathy, and superiority read like the bullet points on Hare's Psychopathy Checklist and convinced Fuselier and the other leading psychiatrists close to the case that Harris was a psychopath.

It begins to explain Harris' unbelievably callous behavior: his ability to shoot his classmates, then stop to taunt them while they writhed in pain, then finish them off. Because psychopaths are guided by such a different thought process than non-psychopathic humans, we tend to find their behavior inexplicable. But they're actually much easier to predict than the rest of us once you understand them. Psychopaths follow much stricter behavior patterns than the rest of us because they are unfettered by conscience, living solely for their own aggrandizement. (The difference is so striking that Fuselier trains hostage negotiators to identify psychopaths during a standoff, and immediately reverse tactics if they think they're facing one. It's like flipping a switch between two alternate brain-mechanisms.)

.......................................

The psychiatrists can't help speculating what might have happened if Columbine had never happened. Klebold, they agree, would never have pulled off Columbine without Harris. He might have gotten caught for some petty crime, gotten help in the process, and conceivably could have gone on to live a normal life.

Their view of Harris is more reassuring, in a certain way. Harris was not a wayward boy who could have been rescued. Harris, they believe, was irretrievable. He was a brilliant killer without a conscience, searching for the most diabolical scheme imaginable. If he had lived to adulthood and developed his murderous skills for many more years, there is no telling what he could have done. His death at Columbine may have stopped him from doing something even worse.


http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/

Oh like donning a uniform and carrying out his plan on a much grander scale?

A psychotic and a psychopath; sounds like a marriage made in heaven.

We just gots to learn to recognise the signs.......


Becoming part of the vernacular
Since the shooting, "Columbine" or "the Columbine incident" has become a euphemism for a school shooting. Charles Andrew Williams, the Santana High School shooter, reportedly told his friends that he was going to "pull a Columbine", though none of them took him seriously. Many foiled school shooting plots mentioned Columbine and the desire to "outdo Harris and Klebold."[56]

Seung-Hui Cho, the shooter in the Virginia Tech massacre, mentioned "martyrs like Eric and Dylan" apparently referring to Columbine High School gunmen Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.[57]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

 

Yeah, so goes yet another theory about the meaning of life ....

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Of course not. The term Existential angst only applies when someone walks around in a dignified Kierkegaard manner.

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That's what you want right? Another theory? A theory how to live or how to catch the psychotic or the unhappy or social safety or....

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Many of us have obviously found meaning for themselves. when you go to see a therapist they don't tell you what to do, they dont tell you what the answer is or what the meaning is, they help guide you to yourself because you are the only person who can answer the question for yourself.

good luck Signal

Read Durkheim on anomie and then the existentialists response. Read the lives of those who inspire you. Ask whomever but you still are the only one who can give your life meaning. Sorry it sucks I know, life isn't a tv commercial or an after school special where all things are summed up in a nice little formula package.

 

I have somewhat different thoughts on killing.With these events everyone focuses on "how could anyone kill like this" Well first off I believe if killing was not against the law there would be tons of killings a day.I believe the act of killing is rare because most people do not want to lose their freedom or there life.In other words if people could kill without consequences to themselves, then there would be killing rampages everywhere.So the rarity of killings is more to do with loss of freedom or ones life rather than people naturally not having a killing nature.The 2 columbine boys were willing to give up everything for their killing and that is the rare part in my opinion.We have a basic nature or will to live and to be free while were alive.So my shock is " why throw everything away" not "why do people kill" Why do so many people think there must be something wrong with people who kill?

 

I have somewhat different thoughts on killing.With these events everyone focuses on "how could anyone kill like this" Well first off I believe if killing was not against the law there would be tons of killings a day.I believe the act of killing is rare because most people do not want to lose their freedom or there life.In other words if people could kill without consequences to themselves, then there would be killing rampages everywhere.So the rarity of killings has more to do with loss of freedom or ones life rather than people naturally not having a killing nature.The 2 columbine boys were willing to give up everything for their killing and that is the rare part in my opinion.We have a basic nature or will to live and to be free while were alive.So my shock is " why throw everything away" not "why do people kill" Why do so many people think there must be something wrong with people who kill?

 

lol
That's fucking awesome.

 

Don't direct this at me, because this isn't about me.

I want to see what goes on in the mind of someone like you, how you explain and justify your stance.

With an approach such as yours - which is very common nowadays in the West -, I am not surprised someone takes a gun and starts shooting people.