Real story behind Columbine

Rubbish.

When you're being bullied, it is not your responsibility to understand and take care of the bully.

 

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I have heard that the bombs did not go off - that part was not bullshit. It could have been much much worse.

Bottom line, if no one fucked with them they probably wouldn't have done it right? Yeah what they did was wrong, what was done to them was not even close to what they did....but that's how offensive behavior works...it tends to multiply.

 

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It seems that you're blaming everyone but the actual criminals.

Did you read Fraggle's post? It turns out nobody fucked with them, this wasn't revenge: they were just psycho's.

 

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acording to ONE oerson who wasnt the coronor i might add. would love to see HIS backstory and political adjender i might add

and yes i dont blame them mad, anymore than i blame the victom of spousal abuse

 

Columbine shooters came up with a plan "designed to demonstrate their innate superiority"

Can anyone spot a relationship between these two statements?

Shame on you Fraggle; shame on you.

 

Ok Roman and Asguard. Please take a look at this and then tell me this isn't sociopathic if not psychotic behaviour. I don't believe for one second that 'bullying' is the sole cause for this kind of nihilistic action, its already been common knowledge for a while that they had planned this for a long time. I disagree with the 'loner' label as there are pictures of them in a group, they had their own crowd they ran with even if they were not the 'in' crowd. No one is saying bullying is good for kids or doesn't have negative consequences but please lets have some perspective here.
I wouldn't even say that they succumbed to depression, PTSD or any of that crap, they are prime examples of anomie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKDvT1f6HDc&feature=related

Frags Washington piece states:


"We remember Columbine," Cullen writes, "as a pair of outcast Goths from the Trench Coat Mafia snapping and [then] tearing through their high school hunting down jocks to settle a long-running feud. Almost none of that happened. No Goths, no outcasts, nobody snapping. No targets, no feud, and no Trench Coat Mafia. Most of those elements existed at Columbine -- which is what gave them such currency. They just had nothing to do with the murders."

They claim:

Far from feckless pariahs, in fact, the two shooters in the Columbine case -- Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold -- were smart, reasonably popular kids who doled out more bullying than they ever suffered. Their shooting spree was not some precipitous act of revenge against specific tormentors, but more like an elaborately planned theater piece, worked out almost a year in advance, designed to demonstrate their innate superiority by indiscriminately killing as many victims as possible.

Harris and Klebold, moreover, were hardly cookie-cutter assassins. As Cullen depicts him, Harris was a sadistic and expertly manipulative psychopath, charming when he wanted to be, capable of simulating remorse, good will or cooperation if it helped him get his way. His underlying motivation was relatively simple: "I hate the [expletive] world," he complained in his journal. Klebold, on the other hand, was a tortured, erratic depressive who whined at length in his notebooks about love and romance even as he fulminated about "the real people (gods)" -- i.e., himself and Harris -- being "slaves to the majority of zombies." Klebold's aggression was inwardly directed and complex: "Good god I HATE my life," he wrote, "i want to die really bad now."

And so they did and good riddance to them.

 

wow the same single source and im just as suspicious of it as when i first read it. after all admiting the fault DOESNT lie just with them means that alot of people have to admit the fault lies with themselves. that starts with those who opose gun restrictions and goes right through to the parents of the dead

 

Bad parenting and lax gun restrictions does not account nor excuse nor explain their behaviour. Did you see the video footage?

 

yes, i would say that is rather obvious. it isnt fair to people who are genuine victims of abuse because the both of them were probably nasty bastards whereas people who are bullied are more shy and self conscious.

well the bottom line is that i dont really see too much difference between this and serial killers.

 

trust me, i would have LOVED to have blown quite a few of the kids i went to school with and im no sociopath.

 

But you didn't. There is a difference between thought and behaviour and when someone gets to the point where they have to act out all their thoughts without discrimination its a sign of mental illness.

Why are you so hard pressed to defend these two guys?

 

yea i didnt, i didnt have access to a gun. if i had *shrug*

since when do we blame the victoms of an illness for there symptoms. this only happens with mental illness and HIV

OH and i have suffered deoression as long as i can rember. i still do off and on. when i told my shrink what i went through at school his jaw dropped

 

Depression is beside the point and doesn't lead to murder. THEY WERE NOT VICTIMS. They planned this over a year, more than enough time for a reality check if not one of conscience which was obviously lacking. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for either of them. It seems to me your sympathies are misplaced. By the way, if they had acted out of distress during an abusive situation I would agree with you but they planned and their victims were of random whomever is in front of me targets. Also its like I posted on the animal snuff thread, you speak of killing in its abstract form 'oh I could really kill...' without having a clue what it means to actually have to act in this manner. There have been soldiers under fire who have hesistated to pull the trigger because they had never shot at anyone before. Killing takes practise, killing takes a cold gut. They didn't kill out of passion or despair, they killed because they were dead, the dead don't despair because the dead feel nothing. They attached no value to life, their own and others. That last sentence I add is what makes them sociopaths and their actions are what makes them psychotic.

 

Trying again to make connections:


their innate superiority by indiscriminately killing as many victims as possible.

His underlying motivation was relatively simple: "I hate the [expletive] world,"

he fulminated about "the real people (gods)" -- i.e., himself and Harris -- being "slaves to the majority of zombies."

Sound familiar?

A little superiority complex can be a very dangerous thing.......

 

So how does one prevent psychotic juvenile shits from becoming psychotic adult shits? Just allow them to kill thmselves and hope they don't take too many others with them?

Sounds like a solution to these kinds of incidents? Doesn't it?

Or maybe start to recognise that there may be some common psychotic signs...like saying or writing repeatedly:

"I hate the fucking world" "I want to die" "I want to kill the fucking world"

I mean if my kid said or wrote those things and stockpiled weapons I might be a little concerned.....

 

Q1 How the fucking hell can juveniles stockpile weapons without anyone knowing?
Q2 I would hope that I could talk to my children and that they could talk to me especially if they were feeling like killing themselves or others. Did these kids have the opportunity to do that? Did they show any outward signs of their psychosis (let me help here: The answer is YES!!!)?
Q3 Everyone here seems quite happy to let the buck stop with these two young people, branding them as psychotic little shits and moving swiftly on but is that the best we can do when children kill other children?

Ah well life's a bitch and all that. What can you do. Shit happens as BM would say. Let's just let the families involved deal with it all. God forbid we might as a society ever learn anything from these tragic one off events. Oh but hang on...they're not fucking one off events are they?

Wake up.

 

But Sniffy wouldn't you agree that though there are things that need changing whether they be gun laws, parent involvement etc that these two 17 & 18 year old youths are still ultimately responsible for their actions? The fact that there may be others to blame doesn't make them any less responsible.

 

Hmm a small clue to the mental state of at least one of them here perhaps....

Klebald described as:

" a tortured, erratic depressive "

Now I do wonder where that 'diagnosis' came from? Given that the boy is now dead.

Now I ask you Bells: If one of your kids was described in this way do you think you might notice something worthy of your concern before or after he'd taken out himself and several of his fellow students and teachers?