Racial Divisions in the U.S.

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Crcata, Jun 24, 2016.

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  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Let me say that I will protect my interest. If they call me racist, so I am , If choose separate myself from certain group to live in an comfortable envirinment , I will , In my book there is nothing wrong with that, My experience ( generalize ) every majority group will discriminate against minority.
    Again if I am racist , which I am . If would be living in Ethiopia and I would find a black woman to my delight I would married her. Here I was married with an American white woman I was not satisfied , I traded her for an Asian , after she got killed in a car accident I have chosen an other Asian and not a white woman. I had dark skin woman, it all depend in what environment you are .
    If it comes to protect my interest and I have to discriminate , I will.
     
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  3. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    You have to be delusional to think that "other races" have the same opportunities as white people and that they just don't "choose" to take those opportunities. That's some of your white privilege at work. It makes you racist.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I guess we have different books, then.
     
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  7. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Look I as a foreigner in this country in my first year went to a college were 90 % were black the instructor was black, How could I discriminate by race or was I discriminated. by race.
    Question : You seem to be no white . I am sure there are industry owned by black owner, would they discriminate against non black ?
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You can discriminate if you are in the minority. You can discriminate if you are in the majority. You can discriminate against women even though they make up 50% of the population. Discrimination can (and is) employed by people from all walks of life, all races, both sexes and all religions.
     
  9. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Some would. I'm not saying that all people who aren't white are not perfect. However, in the USA at least, there are structures in place that work against non-white people.
     
  10. Crcata Registered Senior Member

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    They objectively do. You wouldn't even know where to start in order to back that up, because you simply are wrong, but have no desire to accept that reality.

    You wish it were true, to the point you believe it. That, is delusion.

    Where as if you took a look at education, who takes the opportunity to even graduate high school, and college, you would see i am correct. But research would disprove your stronf emotional attachment to your opinion, so i know you wont do it.

    Lol
     
  11. Crcata Registered Senior Member

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    Like what? Do you even know? I suspect not. You bought into the hate the media has portrayed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    What African Americans experience goes beyond a "feeling".

    Which you have done yourself.

    If the over representation of African Americans in the criminal justice system because of over policing and the sheer number of black people killed by the police, some even in the back as they are running away, or choked to death on camera, the answer to your question is yes, black people are being targeted unfairly.

    Is there such a thing as white privilege? Yes. Your posts in this thread are evidence of this. Is there a solution? Certainly. Stop stereotyping them and stop being racist. Yes, it really is that simple.

    Do I know how long it will last? It won't stop as long as people racially profile, stereotype based on ethnicity and skin colour and are racist.

    And yes, people of other ethnic groups also suffer.

    To give you a primary example of the racism that exists in your country.. One only has to look at the election (twice) of your first black President. People tout this as being an example of just how your country is not racist and how black people are not treated unfairly. They fail to acknowledge that Obama has been subject to racist and bigoted accusations, such as he is not even an American for the whole tenure of his Presidency. The birther debate is a prime example of the racism that pervades your society and the political establishment.

    A few things about this paragraph.

    There is no "however" after saying slavery was "absolutely terrible". "However" is a means to shove it under the rug to excuse current opinions about black people and equally bad, claim victimhood because you are white. You may not have participated in it, but you currently reap the benefits of it. The attitudes about blacks from the days of slavery, which are only a few generations ago, prevail. The belief that they are lazy, live in ghetto's, for example, that they are less intelligent, etc, stems directly from the days of slavery.

    To declare that you feel "no black man should ever use that an excuse for his anger" shows a clear disconnect to the reality that black men face because of the attitudes that continue to exist about black people from days of slavery. What? Do you expect them to ignore the history of how they came to be in the US? Your country celebrates when white people first appeared in the US and your country's growth and development, a lot of which was built on the backs of slaves, but you seem to believe that any group that suffered as a result of that, should simply ignore their history. To wit, your country would not be where it is today without the pain and suffering of their ancestors. Declaring that they should not feel enraged about this is racist.

    Are you serious?

    The reason behind their poverty can be traced right back to the fact that they were never given the chance for an equal footing in the US. There is a reason why poverty is so pervasive among African Americans and that can be traced right back to slavery. The cultural mindset that existed back then about African Americans continues to this very day. And your next comment is simply an example of that:

    This is exceptionally racist and offensive.

    To wit, you are simply parroting attitudes whites had about blacks in the days of slavery to justify slavery. That blacks were violent and needed to be controlled, that they were too stupid to do anything or lacked the skills to amount to anything or do anything without being owned and controlled, that they lack education (while being denied the right to an education and many slaves were killed for simply learning to read - the term "uppity nigger" existed to describe any black person who dared to become educated or consider themselves 'equal' to the white man, the stereotype that they are rapists, violent, are unable to have families.. The argument you just made, is the exact justification that white slaver's used and racists used to mistreat black people.

    Have you considered how many black people or hispanics lost job opportunities (or housing, access to education, health care) because of their skin colour or ethnicity?

    What breeds racism are attitudes like what you have espoused in your opening post.

    Yes. Sometimes it's better to stop when you are well behind.

    Is this the same Fire Department that throughout the US, have consistently blocked non-whites from joining their ranks in equal numbers to whites?
     
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  13. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, now your true white pride racism is coming to the foreground here.
    OK, how about this economic research, http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html , that revealed that people who have names that sound like they might be black have a harder time getting a job?

    This is just one example of systematic problems throughout the USA that operate against white people.

    I'm sure that you don't know, or choose not to know, about the stop-and-frisk policy of the New York Police Department and the racial biases shown there. http://racism.org/index.php?option=...e&id=1517:nystopandfrisk&catid=136&Itemid=155
    So I'm making up slavery and Jim Crow and Rodney King and the National Bureau of Economic Research and the New York Police Department?
    So, when you look at the ability of people to graduate high school, you think, "Everyone in high school is a competent human being with no problems at home, so if a person fails to graduate high school, it is their fault and not the fault of anyone else." You don't want to give opportunities to non-white people and you won't even help a kid graduate high school.

    And if a white kid was having trouble in school because they couldn't rely on their home life, would you tell that white kid that they did not deserve any help?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    In the area of north east America, where I live, there has been a wave of African immigrants, many from Cameroon, over the past decade. This group, as a whole, has done extremely well in all measures of the America dream, ranging from higher education, income, number of houses and businesses they own, etc. This group brought old fashion values from Africa, such as strong families values, high value for education and a good work ethic. Being black did not hold them back, with many very dark skinned. They don't blame anyone, but work hard to pursue and enjoy the opportunities that are possible.

    The difference between this group of blacks and the America blacks, is the blacks from Africa have had less indoctrination influence from the Democratic party. The Democratic party is acting like a smothering mother, who overprotects her American black children, with the goal of making them dependent; votes. If a smothering mother makes her child dependent she can control the child.

    Picture if you had a child who was bullied when they were young. You can either teach the child to move on, or you can use this as an opportunity to make the child afraid and needy for the rest of their life. You can teach the child not to blame everyone in the school, since this is not realistic. Or you can teach them to blame everyone in the school with a stereo-type. This indoctrination will isolate them because their reaction will not even real. This will play into the hands of a smothering mother, who wants a dependent child, forever.

    The African blacks who immigrated have not been indoctrinated to be the victim of bullies. Their children are not taught to blame all white people, making it harder for themselves. If I blame you, using a stereo type, and you did nothing to me, you will not trust me, because I don't really see you. This is what the Democrats teach, thereby create a backlash that they call the source of the problem. \

    The Democrats have created a sinister social path of dependency, called diversity. This is where immigrants, races, sexes, are tricked into not assimilating into a mainstream of equality. Instead they are taught to embrace the very differences that will separate them. The problem this creates is, say your diversity means you need to retain all the attitudes of a third world country, while living in a first world country. How can you ever succeed, since all the best opportunities are in the first world? You need the Democrats for freebies and protection from the evil world you can't explore.

    The Democratic party was the party of slavey, segregation and division. They have figured out a way to get minorities cultures, women and homosexuals to segregate themselves; diversity, thereby undermining their main stream opportunities. The Africans from Cameroon have shown what happens when blacks embrace the first world, while retaining their diversity more like hobby. They are doing the same thing all the European groups did, who are successful in America.

    Diversity for the American blacks means return to tribal culture. Tribal is useful because all are part of an extended family. The practical problem with tribal is it has a limit in terms of the number of people it can integrate. If I am not mistaken, the maximum numbers of people a tribe can integrate is about 70,000-100,00. Relative to the blacks, tribal diversity sort of segregates the blacks from 300,000,000 people and each other, since this mode of human organization, can't spread that far.
     
  15. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Well, there's some even better racism!
     
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  16. Bells Staff Member

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    Being any colour and discriminating against via racial stereotypes is racist.

    It's not that being white causes racism and no one has said such a thing. Being white (or any colour really) and treating others differently or stereotyping against them because of their colour or ethnicity is distinctly racist.

    For example, we have one poster in this thread who has declared that he will not rent his property to people of colour because he does not want to devalue his property. We have another poster who has pretty much embodied the very definition of racist stereotyping by not only ignoring the inherent institutional racism that exists, but also declaring that blacks who live in what he determined to be "ghettos" are lazy, uneducated, violent or prone to violence, lack problem solving skills (another way of declaring people are simply stupid). This is racist. The inability to understand the racist ideology that forced black people into ghetto's, restricted their access to education and employment, forcing the those very stereotypes on them to keep them there shows a fairly dangerous level of racism because it literally harks back to less than 100 years ago, where blacks who were educated, did not live in the "ghettos", had a nice house, worked in places like offices, for example, as being "uppity niggers".

    This ideology still pervades society. If a black person somehow makes it out of the cultural mindset they have been forced into for generations by whites, they are deemed "uppity", they are constantly reminded that they do not really belong outside of that. A black person driving a nice car is more than likely to be stopped by police officers because the racist culture that is so pervasive teaches that blacks aren't meant to be driving nice cars, as such, they must have stolen it. That is the culture and institutional racism that keeps blacks in poverty.

    So it isn't a matter of being white that causes racism. White culture that has embraced racist ideology historically and presently, that causes racism. There is a distinct difference.

    As Kittamaru correctly points out, "race" does not exist in biology. What this thread proves is that "race" is a social construct, and it is all pervasive.

    I am sure that Crcata does not believe he is racist. I am also certain that he is offended at being told his posts are racist. But they very much are racist. For example, here is one of his comments:

    I want you to think about this for a few minutes.

    Is it the police? And then he comments that the vast majority of interactions were deemed justifiable. In other words, the interactions of which he speaks amounted to white police officers shooting black people. In the majority of the time of these "justified" "interactions", the black men in questioned were unarmed. We have cases of black men dying in custody after being arrested for looking at a police officer and moving away from said police officers. Apparently avoiding eye contact is also tantamount to suspicion from the police, as is making eye contact. A black man cannot drive a nice car without fear of being stopped because the police believe they must have stolen it. A black man cannot walk down the street or sit on a bench outside a store, without police and others believing that he must be casing the joint. A black kid cannot play with a toy gun without two police officers driving their car up the curb and jumping out and shooting him within less than 2 seconds. Black kids cannot swim in a pool in a predominantly white area without being racially profiled and then thrown out and arrested like criminals for doing nothing more than swimming in a public pool in a predominantly white area. Try as I might, I cannot see how these actions are justified.

    His comment ignores the very inherent and entrenched racism that exists behind that 'blue wall'. Blacks are more represented in prison because they are over-policed. Not because they commit more crimes than whites. If whites were policed as much as black people were, they too would over-represent in the criminal justice system. This is recognised around the world. Over policing certain groups within any population will see that group over-represented in the criminal justice system.

    This over policing also ensures that black people are unable to move forward. Because they are constantly being stereotyped as criminals, constantly watched for any possible criminal behaviour and stopped by police for being black by police officers who stereotype. And stopped even though they have done nothing wrong. Not only that, black people are 3 times as likely to be searched as white people during one of these stops. It is even worse for Native Americans.

    If you want a prime example of just how police differentiate between blacks and whites, you need only look at the unlikely social experiment conducted by two seminary students. One white, one black. Both dressed similarly, both taking part in the same protest, next to each other. Both committed the exact same so called crime. The difference in how the two were treated is stark and startling. And it raises the question, how is it justified that the black student is treated so differently to the white student for the exact same crime? And people like Crcata wonder at how or why black people are angry?

    Look at the case of DeShawn Currie, an 18 year old male, who was pepper sprayed and arrested for entering his own house, with a key, because police felt he did not belong in the house where a white family lived after a neighbour racially profiled him and called 911. DeShawn is a child they had been fostering for a long while. Police pointed out to DeShawn, before pepper spraying him after he questioned what they were doing in his house, that he did not belong there, because picture frames in the living room had white people in it. Tell me, how many white teenagers are pepper sprayed and arrested for burglary because police believe they are burglars for entering their own house with a key?

    And yet, a black woman can call 911 for help while being attacked by her ex-husband, and the attack is being played out on the 911 call, a call that lasted 11 minutes, during which, she was pleading for her life and her attacker was telling her he was going to kill her, the police got to her house, knocked on the door and when no one responded, they left. No further investigation took place. Her family pleaded with police to check the house again, after not being able to contact her. They were told by police to check the local jail and hospital. The family ended up having to break down the door and found her body. Do you think the same thing would have happened in a white neighbourhood? I don't. There is a great deal of disparity there.

    Crcata deliberately glosses over all of these realities of "race" in America. And he dismisses them as being non-existent. So to answer your question, no, being white does not make you racist. What does make one racist is the support and belief in a system that enshrines racism at its very core. To wit, what is racist is white privilege and the defense of said white privilege while ignoring/and/or defending institutionalised racism by declaring it is all justified because (insert stereotype of choice here).
     
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I can see similarity between Mexican immigrants and Puerto Rican ( American citizen ) in the Chicago area. The Mexican have made progress in its community ,they have their industry, business. vile the Puerto Rican is a go happy and many live of the State, The Puerto Rican have the security , so he does not have the motivation to advance ( speaking in generality ), Vile the immigrant take any kind of Job, he does not depend on mother welfare. The same I believe is among American black and the African immigrant.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And around here the exact opposite is true. Puerto Ricans are like anyone else - the Filipinos, Italians and Chinese who live here. They work hard, start businesses etc. But Mexicans? Many people here just "know" that they came here to have their kids so the kid could be a US citizen and sponge off welfare.

    So who is right? Or are both sets of people wrong for making assumptions based purely on race?
     
  19. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Let me ask this way. Do the Mexican so called kids producers . do they work ? I assume before they produce an offspring they must live of work , they don't get welfare , do they ?
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    An interesting feature: not too many years ago the bigoted white men I worked with regarded Mexicans as very hardworking. The blacks were on welfare and drugs, the reds were on government support and alcohol or glue, the Middle East refugee immigrants were getting all kinds of special tax breaks (they supposedly didn't have to pay payroll taxes for five years, etc) the yellows and jews were basically organized crime gangs who always had each other's back, but the Mexican browns (though dirty and thievery-prone) worked hard for their money.

    There has always been a discord there, in the stereotypification of Mexicans. It's been kind of interesting to watch it play out.
     
  21. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps this can help to answer you. There are two of Mexican , the Pocho and the born in Mexico. Poch is the one born here , ( mostly in Texas or by the border ) The Pocho have the same right as a Puerto Rican many of them explore the welfare system.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Most do, some don't - just like the whites, and the Puerto Ricans, and the Asians.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    They didn't come here to qualify for welfare. They came here because there were lots of jobs. The Mexican economy tanked after NAFTA. The Mexican farmers with their hundreds of hired hands picking the corn simply could not compete with American farmers who had much more technology in their enterprises. This is why so many Mexicans came to the USA: there were jobs here!

    However, Mexico rebuilt itself as a middle-class country about 15 years ago. Now, millions of the Mexicans in the USA are going back home to be with their friends and families, because they can get jobs. In fact many of them are able to start businesses and employ dozens of former emigrants.

    This will be a godsend to the American consumer for several reasons:
    • Buying products from China is dangerous, because we have to trust their concepts of quality control. (Remember the poisonous dog food? How about the wood products that leach poisonous gas into your basement?) But a factory in Mexico can have an American manager stationed there full-time, coming home on weekends--if we even need them there!
    • It's far more expensive to ship goods across an ocean than across a land border. Mexican factories can use American-made components in their products. The average made-in-China product has no more than 5% components made in the USA; whereas the average made-in-Mexico product is almost 50% made-in-America!
    • The Chinese tolerate us and make fun of us; whereas the Mexican people have loved us ever since we sent our troops to help them overthrow the French invasion. Whenever the USA is attacked (Pearl Harbor, the capture of our embassy in Iran, 9/11), the American consulates in Mexico have queues half a mile long, of people determined to join the U.S. Army and help protect us.
     
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