QM randomness...

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Seattle, Jun 2, 2017.

1. river

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Hmm...Ekpyrotic brane collision , interesting I thought of this , 30 , 35yrs ago. Never thought much of it , just my imagination of understanding this Universe . Never did I think that some would take it seriously . Well ..there you go .

You see , for me when both branes came together , they created the galaxies , through electrics and magnetics . There was no BB , just where these two branes collided , met with extremely high energy , hence galaxies . And this only happens at certain points in space in the Universe . Hence the dotting so to speak of galaxies in the Universe . This then led me to then to my agreement with the Plasma Universe . It just made sense .

But anyway thats old news .

Well I'm not a math guy , so what does all your saying come to ?

Last edited: Aug 29, 2017

3. Write4UValued Senior Member

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6,202
http://news.usm.edu/article/universe-ringing-crystal-glass

Note that in this illustration we are in a cycle of expansion. Is this why the apparent speed up of expansion? And once we reach the crest, will the universe begin to shrink again, each time at a longer wave length, until eventually the wave function flattens out completely, and some form of stasis emerges?

5. Write4UValued Senior Member

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But when something becomes solid it acquires mass. When sufficient mass has formed at the outer edges, universal gravity will tend to draw it back and thus form the wave-like function of energetic expansion and gravitational contraction.

Last edited: Aug 29, 2017

7. exchemistValued Senior Member

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Untrue. The physical state of matter has no effect on its mass.

8. Write4UValued Senior Member

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I thought about that, but IMO it seems here we are speaking of fundamental conversion from energy to mass, through super cooling of massless virtual particles. I got this idea from the following wiki entry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism

9. GeonRegistered Member

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So far the model is still being created, as far as how to view a pre-big bang state. We're talking about very small spaces, much smaller than any metal or any solid here on Earth - with very little thermodynamic properties. The phase transition from classical to early quantum vacuum is one picture of a larger one involving a pre-quantum, to quantum to classical vacuum. (Pre-vacuum should not be mistaken to mean a sub-quantum system, I do not believe in such systems).

10. GeonRegistered Member

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What we might find is that a pre-big bang state may have been controlled like a small system obeying classical laws - only if, the thermal properties of the pre-big bang particles have wavelengths smaller than their separation. This is a difficult question to answer, because how small can you probe spacetime without seeing those quantum effects (?)... well... generally speaking most scientists think those quantum effects are visible at and around the Planck scale, which is much smaller than the thermal interpretation of a wavelength and we have already established, we do not want a universe to collapse to a point... maybe the size of a football would do (roughly).

As you can see this look on things may lead to an interesting pre-big bang model. It seems quantum effects would be directly related to the temperature of the system (universe). When a universe heats up, the wave functions related to particles can have physics that describes a quantum vacuum.

Write4U likes this.
11. GeonRegistered Member

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But also notice, it also depends on how many particles existed in the pre-state universe. It doesn't have to match the particles in the observable universe today, due to a non-conversation between the two phases, which is actually another way to state it was an irreversible process - no big bounce theories in my universe.

12. GeonRegistered Member

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190
If you have a lot of particles ... about $3 \times 10^{80}$, the factor of three for each dimension of space, into a very small space, into the size of a football, you will have very small thermodynamic properties maybe still exceeding the interparticle distance, based alone on the massive number. This is why we must also consider, there was not as many particles around as we today in the post case than what there may have been in the pre case.

So lots of physics to consider.

13. originTrump is the best argument against a democracy.Valued Senior Member

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But none of this seems like physics?
Thermodynamic properties may exceed a distance. WTF is that suppose to mean? It looks completely meaningless to me, could you elaborate?
$3 \times 10^{80}$ neutrons in something the size of a football would be about $10^{30}$ denser than a neutrons star! So I would not look to hard to find space between the particles!
What?

IMO you should just stick to writing down random equations.

14. GeonRegistered Member

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190

Are you actually angry at me, because you don't understand the physics?

15. GeonRegistered Member

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Also, these things... may seem like random equations, but you don't seem to have a clue about physics, or the capacity to go investigate. It may do you good to investigate physics so you can learn, instead of coming to places like this and arguing with people who have already done their homework.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_de_Broglie_wavelength

16. GeonRegistered Member

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190

The pre-big bang phase does not need as many particles as that. The idea is that non-conservation may provide an answer. The point of raising these questions is to entice thought and speculative ideas in a very cloudy subject which has had little investigation.

And non-conservation of particle creation is expected to happen when the universe was young with a large curvature. There could certainly be isodensity between the phase states, there may not be an isothermal phase change - certainly, there would not be one with a pre-state heating into a post state.

17. exchemistValued Senior Member

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No he seems to be annoyed that some of your statements make no sense, in this case the statement that, " you will have very small thermodynamic properties maybe still exceeding the interparticle distance". This is not physics but word salad.

But maybe you just mistyped or misdrafted: can you re-explain what you meant by that apparently nonsensical statement?

18. exchemistValued Senior Member

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But energy has mass. E=mc², right?

I see nothing about supercooling of massless virtual particles in the Wiki entry you reference. Have I missed it, or are you making this up, or have you got it from somewhere else?

19. Write4UValued Senior Member

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And the question is still open; Where did the energy come from?
Is it not fair to ask how that potential for energy even existed in a world with only probabilistic potential for virtual particles to become relevant in the formation of mass.
And I agree that temperature is one fundamental aspect of that potential.

But where did the potential for energy to express itself as unimaginable energetic event, producing radiation from all spectrums of light, heat, temperature change. What equation can be arrived at that proves that Nothing cannot exist forever, which is proven by the energetic beginning of our universe, which is no longer Nothing, but inherent Energy, expressed in an unimaginable number of ways, but accordance to certain mathematical rules. Common denominators in all our physical things. One such common denominator is that potential Quantum Implication, became Expressed in physical reality.

What can we learn from a cold dead planet or even a cold brown dwarf somewhere. What's its atomic and chemical history? What sets this phenomenon apart from highly energetic objects like stars?
IMO, energy and temperature, changes in the environment, forces, and work done.

20. Write4UValued Senior Member

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Try to contain Hydrogen,
or
Try to contain helium.
http://geology.com/articles/helium/

Maybe energy acquires mass from the Higgs field, perhaps at a ratio of E = Mc^2

The only question remains, where did the energy come from if there was never any mass? Pure quantum potential functions from which the probabilistic Implications form and become Expressed in our reality, as physical and mathematical quantum events?
IMO, fractality is one such common denominator also. Geometric equations of tensors and vectors.. Good stuff all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle .

Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
21. originTrump is the best argument against a democracy.Valued Senior Member

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No, I am not angry. I was just wondering WTF you were talking about, because it seemed nonsensical.

22. originTrump is the best argument against a democracy.Valued Senior Member

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Fine.
I have a question for you. You seem to write with the same style as an individual named Reiku, and if you would humor me on this, my question is are you the same poster as Reiku? Thanks.

Particles? In the pre-big bang? That sounds like an alternative physics subject, not a mainstream physics subject.

I see, this is the stuff of alternate theories. There is a section just for that.

Have you got a source for this?

23. exchemistValued Senior Member

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Are you off your meds? WTF has a hydrogen fuel cell got to do with any of this?