Q: Why does Islam call Jews & Christians non-believers [Infidels]?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by IamJoseph, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    actually I posted it because to answer your quesry all you need is the definition of the word Infidel
    Yeah ytour going to need to explain that logic because it doesn't quite work
    I'm not a muslim. just because I'm not a muslim doesn't mean I have to follow you in blind bigotry against the faith
    and one you don't seem to grasp.
     
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  3. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    I know its a NOUN, but it did not say why Jews and Christians are unbeleivers.

    Nothing wrong with that word, it means nothing more than one who is non-Jewish. It does not fulfill away the law of equal rights to both. Its VERY different from infidel, which is a blessing to kill. Your questions parallel your nonsense. People are being killed - some 1000 per week. If it wasn'y funny it would be serious.
     
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  5. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    There has to be specific and logical reasons why someone who is not a muslims can be called an unbeliever. If there are not legitimate reasons than it is just plain garden variety Nazism. Not to be able to even answer this question honestly in a debating forum is rediculous, cowardly and indicates a disturbing guilt factor.

    In this sense your attitude is the same as a Muslim on auto-mode against anything said - you are attacking me instead of making any coherent response. Without loosing modesty, I believe I have exposed something significant amidst all the run away deflections.

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  7. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Since I'm jewish and married a non-jew, both my children went through conversion, one with a conservative rabbi and one with an orthodox rabbi. So I know something about it and don't have to rely on wikipedia, or whatever the source de jour is today.
     
  8. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    They don't. Jews and Christians are People of the Book. A Muslim who calls a Jew or Christian a Kafir (unbeliever) is ignorant.

    CptBork is mistaken on both counts. You can convert to any denomination of Judaism including orthodox, and while there has been debate on the subject, the Israeli government currently recognizes reform conversions as equally valid to orthodox conversions with respect to immigration.

    I know it's fun to argue with idiots like IamJoseph, but you shouldn't go around saying that people can't convert to orthodox Judaism when a ten second Google search would have shown you otherwise.
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    You mean it did not fit into the little box you have in your head about your version of what infidel means?

    It is deemed quite offensive and is generally avoided by most Jews.

    So Christians have equal rights in Israel? Are you sure about that?

    And the King's Torah is what exactly when it comes to gentiles or goys?

    You mean Muslims and non-Muslims in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and areas of Africa, combined with the Palestinians, for example? Those people? Or did you mean other people?

    You find the deaths of people to be funny?

    Or do you just find the deaths of non-Jews, especially Muslims, to be funny?

    Hopefully, for your children's sake, they will not have to move to Israel to marry.

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  10. Bells Staff Member

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    Ermm.. I always thought Kafir was a term to describe an African, especially by white South Africans?
     
  11. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    You are thinking of kaffir (two fs). The words have different meanings despite their common etymological origin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaffir_(racial_term)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

    The work of a nutter, comparable to Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi who supports suicide attacks on pregnant Israeli women because their unborn babies might grow up to join the Israeli army.
     
  12. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    It is more than insulting and totally insane for a new kid on the block who cannot make humous anymore to call Jews as infidels or make any form of insulting accusation of the Hebrew bible. It is also a crime that Muslims dump mosques on other peoples' sacred sites and have the gall to deny it and also barr non-muslims any reciprocity of building chiurches and temples in non-sacred robbed Islamic regime states. This alone should put PAID to any notion of others insulting Islam. VOT A NOIRVE! :bugeye:


     
  13. ejderha Exhausted Registered Senior Member

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    I don't have a faith or belief, but in my country this is the general mode of secular religious Muslims.

    The most fundamental sins against the Creator are:
    -To claim/accept anything else as omnnipotent as the Creator itself and worship to that.
    -Or to claim/accept oneself or as a race, or as a nation special in order to recieve the creator's knowledge and right to worship to him.

    The creator sent Moses first, but Jews went in the wrong and pervert ways of claiming that they are the only ones worth to worship to God or that one must be related to them.

    So the Creator sent the Messiah Jesus, whose birth is accepted as a miracle also by muslims, to correct the world and tell of Himself again, but this time Christians went the wrong and the pervert way and put the man in the God's place and worshiped a human.

    So the Creator sent Muhammed as the last prophet. There won't be another one and while you got the updated news letter, if you are not taking any actions, you are responsible for being an 'infidel'. And you are going to be judged according to the latest religion sent to the world by the Creator. Moses and Jesus are sacred for muslims, because not the prophet nor the messiah failed, it's people that failed.

    Also it's said that the reason the first and the last religion resembles much in rules and in being strict, because that's what the Creator intended after what people did to the Messiah. It's true that Muslims believe Jesus died on the cross, but they also believe he hasn't suffer physically as God prevented it before taking him.

    That's the general outlook.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  14. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    This is not from Islam but Judaism. A lie by omission is - a lie.

    No. Abraham came first and introduced monotheism; his children upheld that belief; Sarah and Rebecca saw further than their husbands and turned the tide of history ['Whatever Sarah tells you to do - do it'/Genesis]. Then came Joseph [the only prophet able to make prophesies with a nominated date and time], and one who saved Israel and also Egypt for a prophetic purpose. None of the three religions would have survived without those revered figures.

    Absolute gibberish! The law they were given gave equal rights to all humans, strangers and inhabitants; ensuring that only the soul that sins it shall pay. Islam corrupted the Hebrew bible with its infidel nonesense, claiming the Hebrew is distored, while Christiaity did not alter any part of it. There was no Islam, Arabs or any Arabic writings at this time.
    You cannot say last. Better, most recent. In time there will be many new religions or Islam may be obsolete. I know of no new revelation by Mohammed - can you tell us what this is?

    For the Jews, the Messiah of the times was Moses. Jews revere Moses and 55 prophets continuously and fastediously. Moses remains the most revered human, by period of time, impact and by cencus. More humans revere Moses than Buddha, Jesus or Mohammed. Its not valid to say unless one accepts Mohammed they are non-believers; only the laws, not any names, decide who is an unbeliever.

    Islamists insult everyone than commits murder when anything negative is said about them. This says Islam will fall, and as Muslims have desecrated other peoples sacred sites with mosques - this will happen to them. No one is above the law - and the law comes from the Hebrew bible - exclusively.
     
  15. ejderha Exhausted Registered Senior Member

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    IamJoseph,

    Personally, I can't care less what you, Jews, Christians, Buddhists or Muslims, Pagans... anyone in claim of something holy, do believe in, or think is right or wrong. It's a major waste of time and life to me; it's religion.

    What I wrote is a general reflection of a well known traditional look in a specific culture. I claim to have a little insight to it as I was born, raised and living in a somewhat secular Muslim country.

    And this "infidel" issue is the fuel of extremists. It's not an issue or even a problem in daily life in multi religious/cultural societies. Muslims are busy living their lives as Jews and Christians do. And life is not easy for any of them.

    If you could ever manage to rise above the extremist propaganda and international politics inflicted, it would be easy for you to understand that the world and its inhabitants are much more complicated than what's written in a book or who started what.
     
  16. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    1,106

    Muslims do not believe anyone who isn't Muslim can't enter heaven in fact Muslims aren't allowed to be certain about who is going to receive reward or punishment, thats for God alone to know.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  17. ejderha Exhausted Registered Senior Member

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    Yes. It's interesting you know that. I didn't even try to put that in my post.
     
  18. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    1. Muhammad being the prophet

    As for laws that are post-Jewish..

    1. Ban on alcohol
    2. Limitation to 4 wives
    3. Acceptance of Jesus is mandatory
    4. Women have the right to inheritance (doesn't get transfered to husband)
    5. The proportions of how inheritance is distributed is different

    You said you don't believe there is such a thing as Islamic Law- I know what you're talking about- that is why I've just given you a few which are in the QURAN and should not be disputable 'laws' of Islam- as Quran is the holy scripture of Muslims.

    @ Michael- the question was why Islam calls Jews- non-believers. Not Mormonism.. but its true Mormon's would call Muslims non-believers based on similar grounds.. but so what? I do disbelieve in Mormonism- so I have no problem being labeled a disbeliever by them... the Jews shouldn't either.

    Peace be unto you

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  19. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    I would like to add that in the Jewish book Torah God is seen as anthropomorphic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  20. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    What good is religion doing? What bad things is religion causing? What good is god doing? What bad things is god causing?

    All this god and religion is worthless rhetoric. I will feed the hungry, comfort the sick, love my neighbor, end all wars, give homes to the homeless, protect the innocent, etc. Hire me for the job, god's on strike. I'll get it done, but it won't be easy and we'll have to work together.

    It reminds me of when the public sanitation departments go on strike. The town starts stinking up something fierce. Um...hello, god it's really getting stinky down here...hello...you said you are coming, so i'm waiting on my ass...hello?

    If all the religious people instead focused their energies as one united people, instead of being windbags crying about who is right, what a world this would be...one that a god would be proud of, i'm sure of it.
     
  21. Zees Registered Senior Member

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    Let the religion speak for itself. Christians and Jews are considered as the people of the book (deviant in following the message of God but believers nonetheless).

    “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een ], whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

    [ Quran; al-Baqarah 2:62]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  22. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    More from the quran on jews and christians

    Muhammed was a very confused guy:shrug:
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    That's because you don't share a violent history with Mormons. If you had, then being labeled a disbeliever (and taxed for your disbelief) would indeed bother you.

    Think of it this way. Does it bother you when White people in Australia refer to the Original Australians disparaging as Abo's? Maybe it bothers you, maybe it doesn't? I mean, you're not an Aboriginal.
    How about if White American solders in Iraq refer to Arabs as sand-niggers? Would that bother you? Should it? Are you an Iraqi? Are you an American solder?


    See, the way I see it, words like Abo, sand-nigger, and infidel are hurtful unnecessary bigotry. The only thing we can really do to change that is through education of the next generation. You're not going to make much headway against someone raised to be a bigot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010

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