Prove it to me...casting call to all LotR lovers

Unless you're attempting to reproduce, the same thing could be said of a simple orgasm.

Oh, come on. You had already decided it was trash before you started this thread.

No doubt fiction can tell us a lot. But it doesn't have to. Fiction can release us some times, and that can mean something also. But fantasy isn't for everybody and obviously you don't care for Tolkien, apparently not as a writer or as a person. But if we all liked the same things then this board would die a quick death.

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Yay! I win I win I win!!! *jumps around*

I'm guessing people read LotR more these days to escape the horrible reality. As for me, I read up on Hindu phil.

 

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Really? What does it tell us?

:m: Peace.

 

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It tells us: "feck off!"

 

It reveals aspects of the limitations of the legal system, the psychology of a 'normal' human being under extreme mental/physical stress, the things we all have in common but don't realize it...it shows a ton of stuff, unlike LotR.

 

But LOtR is so much more fun.

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Oh, yes, those are fresh ideas.

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You have, I believe, misread the book. The Stranger is actually a cautionary tale about an affectless psychopath. While you might to view Mersault as a nihilistic role-model, to me he was a monster whose example was to be avoided.

For instance?

:m: Peace.

 

About the movies:

1) I enjoy that sort of thing, monsters and magic, swords and battles.

2) It's a breakthrough for that genre of film, as nobody has ever put so much into such films before.

3) The movies have prompted many people to read the books. Getting people interested in reading is a good thing.

4) It's almost worth seeing those movies just for the amazing scenery.

 

goofy i love you

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the way you jerk the rug out from under everyone

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heheheheh

 

Fresh ideas for the historical time period. Like LotR is any fresher?? Give me a break. At least the problems of the legal system exists. Good or evil does NOT exist, it's just a fantasy that religious people make up to kid themselves and feel better. Hope that reality check does good to some people there.

And if you think there is only one way to read a book, you're stuck on LotR. The Stranger is open to much interpretation; another reason why it is far faaaaaar superior to LotR, while killing less trees per book.(Ha ha who's pulling the rug out now?)

 

Zero that's the biggest load of Balrog drool I've ever heard. Stories cannot exist unless there is a conflict between a protagonist and an antagonist, or, if you'd rather, good vs evil. There is no story, you just have happy people commenting about how great things are or sad people complaining about things sucking so much. Those two ideas are and always have been prevalent in our society. How can you possibly prove otherwise? I mean, come on...

Lord of the Rings is not fresh, it was written because JRR Tolkien wanted Europe to have a myth behind it, not just one nation. Have you read a single story from greek mythology? How deep are the plots? How deep are the characters? They're shallow. The concepts behind them are what makes them awesome, and the imagination that goes into them as well. The creativity in the Lord of the Rings has been completely unsurpassed as far as I'm concerned.

 

How exactly does LotR rise above the greek myths? Does it say anything more than, oh Frodo threw the Ring into the drink, oh good won over evil, etc? Does it?

Why would you consider good or evil to exist? Do you think there can be absolute good or absolute evil in this world? What are you, some fanatic or some religious fundamentalist? Either that or you're way younger than you make yourself out to be (Yep, I'm an old olllllld man

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)

There are far too many variables in this world that set off events that they can't be cut down to good/evil, antagonist/protagonist. Binary thinking (aka Western thinking) is DEAD. Wake up. How's the rug pulled out from under you feel? :m:

 

Stories can not exist unless there is antagonist/protagonist? Just two sides, eh? How about Les Miserables? Crime and Punishment? The Last Leaf? Heck, the Little Prince? The Glass Bead Game (this one is by Herman Hesse)? Demian? Siddharta?

Oh, SURE, there must be an antagonist and protagonist, good and evil for a story to exist

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What the hell is your problem? Its just a book for gods sake! Alot of people like it is there something wrong with that? Cant people have different opinions than you? Just because you dont like a book is no reason to start a holy crusade against the people who do.

 

More than willing to take up the lack of a challenge...

Simple question, simple answer: LOTR has a great deal of more content, it goes into much more detail than any previous myth and can be easier to be understood because it is written in our language. Good did win over evil, there isn't much more to be said, because this conclusion can be found in many if not all of the works of literature ever written.

Zero, I'm fifteen years old, and I don't need an egotystical plaything to downgrade the intellectual strength my age has given me. I do not think there can be absolute good, but I do think there can be absolute evil. The best example is Adolph Hitler--who murdured fifty million people and never thought twice about it. There are others as well. In mythology, however, a perfect good and a perfect evil tends to be present, take Beowulf for example. He is the perfect hero, and the three creatures he kills are perfectly evil.

In more modern literature, the good vs evil has been translated into a protagonist vs an antagonist, one force can be a boy against a wave, it makes no difference. There is always a problem or a wish and always a challenge that keeps it from being solved. To deny this is lunacy. There's no law saying that there cannot be multiple protagonists or antagonists or things/people caught in the middle, you can have a million of each, I don't care. But you will never find a story with a concrete plot missing this most basic rule.

And, please, from now on refrain from resorting to personal attacks. I will do the same.

 

I'm talking about absolute good/evil in the real world, not mythology/myth literature.

Is it out there? LotR reflects nothing of this world. It is worthless.

Look at the other examples I have given. They reflect some aspect of the human world we live in.

 

Never find a story? What about the little prince/the last leaf?

 

Pick one to summarize. I'm sure we'll find an antagonist in there somewhere.

Officially, Tolkien chose not to make his story one big metaphor, but if you dig deep enough you can find enough parallels with our world and with his, specifically from world war 2. I don't really feel like listing them, because to me at least they are both plain and obvious. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about.

Just because a story reflects nothing of the world, anyway, does not mean it is worthless. When I look for a good story, I look for plot, writing, and a wow factor--that's it. The tale's bearing in the real world makes little difference to me.

 

Ok, so what you are looking for is a plot, the wow factor, and writing. LotR has a plot, the wow factor (to you) and writing (he's got nice wording). Ok. And you say you look for little of the real world.

So do you admit LotR reflects virtually nothing of the real world? And how do you know (now I am NOT a fascist please no anti Nazi leagues outside my bedroom) that the history of WW2 was not written by the winners? The winner of the war gets to write in te books, so the Allies would definitely try to portray the Axis forces as "Evil" in a propaganda attempt. Daresay that did work. We do think the Axis including Mussolini's goons, Nazis and etc were evil.

But were they really "evil" and the Allies always the paragons of "good"? Can you really make that comparison?

The Axis citizens did not all oppose their gov't's antics. Otherwise there would have been no possibility of making a war effort. Obviously some people thought it was right. And it's not like the Allied soldiers were virtuous angels swooping down from the cloud. I'm sure some of the Allied soldiers raped and killed citizenry like the rest of them. And I'm pretty sure the final bombing of Hiroshima that stopped it all wasn't an act of "good" like the destruction of frodo's Ring.

I do not think a comparison between WW2 and LotR novel can be made.


As for the story w/o antagonist, there was one story about this big face in a rock, and the townspeople searching for the one who resembled it...grr I forgot the title/author. Damn. Ok, then the Little Prince. The Last Leaf. Demian. Siddharta (last two by Herman Hesse). Steppenwolfe (same author).

Let's find the antagonists in those.

 

Zero,

To doubt the evil behind the murders of over fifty million people is ludicrous, and to even suggest that it was not evil, or say that the people trying to kill the bastards behind it were even a hundredth as evil as they were is pure pure insanity. War crimes were undoubtedly committed by both sides, but the Nazis were about as evil as they get, my friend. I don't think there's been anything to compare to them. Hitler comes as close to absolute evil as a single person can go.

No. Sorry, I never said that. Re-read my post

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The antagonist in the story that you mention is the fact that the search is not immediately conclusive. If there was no antagonist then the guy that resembled the face in the rock would be standing next to it shouting to everyone that he was the guy and that they didn't have to write a story about it.

Better luck next time.