Pro-lifers, explain your perspective for me please

on the contrary, this is a pro-industrial point of view ...

 

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Correct. It's a retarded argument.

 

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I find that fascinating because the average abortion is performed within the second month, the first trimester. Some States in the US will not allow an abortion after 3 months. So based on what is written above why do you still insist its morally wrong to have an abortion? The divine would not have placed the soul in the fetus by the time it was aborted:shrug:

The irony is that what is written supports the pro choice argument that a fetus is not yet a child.

 

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I did not know that before I entered this thread.

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I have just figured that out when I looked up how is abortion according to Islam, so I made up my mind after I posted this. It's not something that I really think about. If the prophet said so and it doesn't harm anyone, I don't think why I should be against it.

My basic thinking still stand, though, if you terminate after it has a soul (which is apparently after the pregnancy is 120 days old), for no acceptable reasons (e.g. mother's life is at risk, mentally unstable, psychological damage of rape) then it is a murder.

 

More than 80% of all abortions are performed within 12 weeks after the LMP and one third of all those performed after 12 weeks are by teenagers. Medical terminations which comprise 10% of all abortions are performed until 24 weeks. Less than 1% or about 1000 abortions per year are conducted after 24 weeks and are called late term abortions.

This is an 8 week old fetus:

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This is an ultrasound of a baby at 8 weeks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olNeGEPW4PE

I worked with a radiologist for 4 months. It was a life changing experience.

It turned all my views on abortion completely on their head.

 

Sam within 12 weeks is within the first trimester and most women do get an abortion within 9 weeks. Just look at the stats and diagram in this link:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

61% of women have an abortion in their 9th week. Only 9% have an abortion in their 11th or 12the week.

I know all about what they look like at different stages of development but it doesn't change my view on the issue.

The Center for Bio-Ethical research has these stats:

At what gestational ages are abortions performed:

52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy,

25% happen between the 9th & 10th week,

12% happen between the 11th and 12th week,

6% happen between the 13th & 15th week,

4% happen between the 16th & 20th week,

and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

So you are incorrect. Not to mention that an abortion after the first trimester are illegal in many states. Not to mention the fact that in Europe many women simply take the morning after pill.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying. Most of the abortions apart from the morning after pill occur after the 8th week since women will generally wait to miss one menstrual cycle before they realise they are pregnant and it is rare that they will immediately go for one. So when the arms and legs are being pulled off, the kid is at least as well formed as the 8 week old fetus, if not more. Its not some blob that you can pretend doesn't exist.

 

Two to three months is the first trimester and I am saying that most abortions take place within the first trimester.

The form of the fetus within the first trimester is not a case against abortion.

 

Sam, even if it looks like a baby, it still has no soul before 120 days (according to Muhammad teaching), and even in Islamic law a fetus is only considered a human being after the end of the four months. According to this, most Islamic scholars says abortion below 4 months is makruh, i.e. better to avoid but not punishable if done. What is your opinion?

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Kira: According to this, most Islamic scholars says abortion below 4 months is makruh, i.e. better to avoid but not punishable if done.

Which I find interesting. Christianity doesn't have such details as many christian simply thinks of it as a sin even if its the morning after pill that is used.

I don't think Sam's opinion is formed on religious grounds.

 

Yes, in Islam the rules are quite details. There is 6666 verses in the Quran, some people remember everything in it and preserve it from generation to generation, I never even finish reading one

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. But with internet it's not that difficult, I just type the keywords, I'll find what I need to know. The ones that are not covered in the Quran is covered in hadist (it's not the saying of Allah like the Quran, it's the saying of Muhammad himself, but Quran told to follow both). The ones that are not covered in both, or subject to interpretation, is decided by the scholars and sometimes become controversy.

Now that is nothing compared to European law. I know that something discuss about specification of orange juice and some vegetables covered over 5000 pages of European law

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.

For example, in Switzerland, they already applied the exact range of zucchini length acceptable in the market. Out of this range, it is to be considered as 'deformed' and should be rejected to enter the market

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This reminds me to go shopping!

 

There is a thread on abortion in Islam that I started some years ago.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=70539

 

Japan is worse when it comes to fruit and vegetables. They want it to be absolutely perfect, no bruises or anything. They pay an arm and leg for them too.

Oh sorry too off topic

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From abortion to fruit and vegetables you gotta love it!

 

Do you think a miscarriage is equivalent to putting in a vacuum pump voluntarily and tearing off bits and pieces of a child that is inconvenient?

That 8 week old fetus would not be invisible, it would fit right across the palm of your hand. It would be as big as the length of your thumb.

 

No because when you take away someone's future you are hurting an existing person. You're causing actual suffering.

Terminating a fetus doesn't do either of those. Unless you do it late when it is conscious.

 

Oh man, you just made me laugh so much, my nose is running

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Nice one. I'll try and think up one for you.

 

Yes.

 

What industry? Birth control? So what.

 

My movie...

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/logo-uk-d2912b2de891690ae3822bf5e401c149.html