Pot To Be Legalized In Vote In Alaska!

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Eluminate, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    Marijuana was criminalized to fight hippies. Marijuana is as bad as cigarettes and alcohol; it should be legalized and controlled. Anyone who can't see that marijuana is equally as bad, is already addicted.

    Marijuana impairs your abilities, as alcohol does. It also increases the effects of people with ADD or ADHD. However, pot doesn't make you violent like alcohol. I've never heard of someone toking up and then beating their kids. Pot decreases reaction times, while under the influence and after chronic use.

    Smoking pot is like smoking cigs. You may not chain smoke reefer, but you hold it in your lungs. I cough way more smoking pot, than cigs, invert.

    Weed IS bad for you. Legalization, decriminalization, etc and so forth, will give the impression that the federal government thinks it's ok. Then there are the associated cancers that come from pot, and how it will hurt insurance.

    But pot isn't cocaine, and it's not heroin. It's not as chemically addictive as alcohol, even. There aren't many reasons to keep it criminalized. Why not outlaw cigs and alcohol? Because it didn't work: Prohibition. So why keep pot illegal? Power issues and the US being a "Christian Nation."
     
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    Any adverse effects are minor, and that information should be available on packaging. Correlation does not equal causation, people who are depressed and schizo are more likely to do alot of things such as smoke tobacco, have unprotected sex, and join a cult, which can lead to death as well, should we outlaw cults? Pot can indeed bring out psychotic behavior in those with latent psychosis, but who are we protecting? Those who are uncomfortable with psychotic behaviors? ...or the people themselves for whom pot is one of their few joys in life? Anti-psychotic and anti-depressant medications have many more adverse side effects, one of which is suicide. It can cause respitory problems, but increased potency, and new technology like vaporizers can help. If I want to stand around a BBQ and inhale smoke, I should be allowed to do that, too. Do we outlaw BBQ's ? Just like with over the counter medications, there is a personal responsibility to use them wisely.

    Drug "abuse" is a pejorative term, there is nothing theoretically wrong with habitual use of substances, it is part of what makes us human, it depends on the substance. Our entire industrial economy is based on habitual use of coffee. The only reason that is not called abuse is it's cultural acceptance.

    You point to indirect causes of death, how about marriage? Domestic violence is a huge cause of death. What about all the violence and death that pot could prevent, by replacing the highly addictive alcohol that we all know fuels violence.

    How about the benefits of pot to a creature that is evolutionarily predisposed to seek intoxication anyway? It is not addictive, it decreases violent tendencies, increases sensitivity, increases creativity, you cannot overdose, it is natural, and it has a ancient history of medicinal use.

    What about the argument for religious freedom. For many, like the Rastafarians, it is a sacrament. The Native American Church uses peyote in similar ways. It is immoral to outlaw this sacrament. For me and many others, the substantial benefits outweigh the possible adverse health effects.

    Medical uses for marijuana:
    http://www.letfreedomgrow.com/index_se_cmu.htm
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Even if I stop smoking cigarettes, I figure my diet will kill me before pot does. One of the benefits my daughter has brought is the demand for healthier junk food. I've dropped a crippling addiction to Chee-Tos cheese puffs in favor of Bearitos, and Frito-Lay has responded to a growing market tide with its own organic cheese puff, which is pretty damn good. But hydrogenated oils will probably kill me before marijuana does. Dope will be a bit like background radiation in my autopsy if I live to die from "natural causes".

    Sex will kill me before dope will:

     
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  7. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 was made to fight hippies. Marijuana was originally criminalized in 1929 or something. It was racist. Who smoked pot back then? Any guesses? Mostly black jazz musicians. They called it muggles.

    It's funny. Marijuana made it's first appearance at that time. Before that, no one knew the plant by that name. That's why it was called by this strange name. Because if people knew what plant was being made illegal they never would have gone for it. It was pushed into law under our noses. Hemp was banned.

    It was mostly racist, but there were also corporate concerns. Dupont had begun producing plastics. Guess what the stuff we use plastic for today used to be made from predominantly. Any guesses? Cmon. I know you can figure it out.

    Another issue was pharmeceutical. White people used pot too. But they drank their pot. In a highly concentrated form. Can't recall the name right now. But, they'd never heard of this "marijuana" either. Sounded Mexican. Dirty, stinking Mexican drug? Oh yeah, ban it. Then afterwards "What do you mean I can't get my bottle of tonic anymore?"

    There was one other majof corporate interest. What was it? Blah. Blanking on it at the moment. Something to do with the fiber aspect of it. Either paper or cloth.

    So, one day several sneaky politicians snuck a bill into law and the next day the local law enforcement had a new means to persecute blacks. Farmers had to stop growing a crop that they had grown for generations. (FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!! Hemp might very well have been the FIRST domesticated plant.) History books were rewritten and we, a few generations later, are none the wiser. Except the few who struggle to maintain truth. Struggle to keep sanity alive in the face of this madness.

    FREE HEMP.
     
  8. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    4,832
    Actually, I can't.

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    Petroleum? Tree sap?
     
  9. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    If you can't gather from the context of the post then you are a sad, sad man. However, I feel that you are being sarcastic. Which also, in this context, makes you a sad man.

    However, I will elucidate. HEMP. Hemp fiber was used for practically everything. Hemp was a wonder plant. It's uses were neverending.

    Poor immigrants would grow their underwear in their back yards. Hemp grown close together for fine fibers. Chop them down allow it to rot. Fret it. And voila. Fiber for nothing. Momma would sew it up and new undies for the whole family. For free. Only cost was in time which is of course not free. But wonderful to poor families. I imagine in many places in the world, this is still common practice.
     
  10. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,205
    Damn, I think I´ll have to make an extensive visit to Alaska when the vote was passed.
    Interesting list $outh$tar, I know some people who take :m: on a regular basis, and they do not suffer from anything that is on your list.

    And I never experienced any nausea while being drunk at the same time. Well, I had to throw up... but that could be connected to the pair of whiskey bottles I emptied...

    And even if it is lethal, it surely is a nicer way to die then through an alcohol poisoning, I have been told that it is really uncomfortable.
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    But you are not thinking about the COSTS involved with illegal drug sales. Say a person gets addicted to heroin or crack and they spend everything the earn on the drugs they buy. Eventually they won't be able to afford, unless they are very rich, the drugs they need to get high. Those people will do anything to get their drugs including stealing, robbing or even use of force. You know most "users" of illegal drugs are of not great wealth they are the ones who start to prey on others to get money in order to keep high. So that is where crimes are commited and the statistics prove that many crimes are commited by druggies and those that sell them. Just selling a illegal drug without paying tax is a federal offence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2004
  12. Preacher_X Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    757
    why is Eluminate banned?
     
  13. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    why is Eluminate banned?

    Because were banning everybody these days.

    Wear your ban with pride.
    Dee Cee
     
  14. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,205
    Looks like the reasons were deleted/edited, that guy was quite offensive.
     
  15. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    The idea that using drugs will destroy people’s lives and turn them into lazy dead-beats is a myth that the government has been vigorously pushing on the public (mainly children) for decades now. I believed it for a long time myself, until I went to college and met people who smoked pot regularly but still got nearly perfect grades and went on to have very successful and rewarding lives – while still smoking the occasional joint on the weekend. Pot is no different from alcohol; yes, you can ruin your life with it, but you can also use it in moderation without any negative effects. Everyone who smokes pot isn’t a dead-beat junkie any more than everyone who drinks alcohol is a dysfunctional alcoholic.

    If a person is a thief, then they’re hurting other people and should be thrown in jail. Until then, they should be able to do what they want.
     
  16. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Here's a little something to open the debate.

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/bmh/BMH-IRO-coffee_houses.htm

    Such an evil drug imported by those heathen muslims!

    Hope you anti drug types keep away from the evil bean.
    You listening cosmic, §outh§tar?
    I hope so because the very fabric of civilisation depends upon your opposition to these noxious substances!

    Keep fighting the good fight.
    Dee Cee
     
  17. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    BTW anybody who thinks weed is a malignant, dangerous, fabric of society tearing, poverty inducing habit should pay a visit to Amsterdam. I know it means getting on a plane thus making it difficult for many Americans due to the very imaginary threat of being arbitrarily blown out of the sky by crazed madmen with unkempt beards.
    But if you can stomach the fear and the fact that you may have to bag your own groceries you will find that Amsterdam is a city where both sex and weed are legal!!! If you just can't believe your eyes I'll say it again!

    Amsterdam is a city where both sex and weed are legal!!!

    I guess many of you here must think it is Soddom and Gommorah rolled together and writ large within the deepest pits of hell. Well maybe it is.

    Lets have a look!



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    Central Station: a city of lost souls and vending machines

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    Vondelpark: Famed open air youth hostel

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    Always stop when the lights are red!

    Amsterdam.
    Now what sort of person could possibly want to live in such a terrible place.
    You?
    Dee Cee :m: :m: LOL! (Sorry I'm a bit stoned and on the sabbath too)
     
  18. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,205
    Yeah, Amsterdam is cool, and it takes only a few hours to get there.

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    It´s like Hamburg, only that the weed is legal.
    And it does not look like the people over there are overly affected in their health and behaviour by drugs.
     
  19. robtex Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    582
    I talked to a physical therpist last week who studied in Amsterdam and he said something interesting. I have not verified it but it was interesting. He said that the locals did not engage in pot and prostitution as much as the vistors. It was a tourist attraction. Wonder if that is true?

    As far as smoking pot.....how is it again, that getting anything to smolder and than sucking it into your lungs is a good idea? If it was parsley, or I don't know smoke captured off a barbque grill and purposly forced down your lungs say with a pump attached to the grill a good idea either? Isn't it fundamentally unnatural to purposely smolder your lungs with anything let alone a mind altering chemical like THC?
     
  20. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    It was a tourist attraction. Wonder if that is true?

    It's true.
    In fact the only thing that sucks about Amsterdam are the tourists.
    Particularly the young male ones who have yet to figure out the notion of mutual respect.

    how is it again, that getting anything to smolder and than sucking it into your lungs is a good idea?

    Let me rephrase that for you robtex (hope you don't mind) I'll even give you a choice of rephrasing.

    "how is it again, that strapping sticks to your feet and sliding down snow covered mountains at speed is a good idea?"

    or

    "how is it again, climbing into a box on wheels and whizzing through populated areas is a good idea?"

    or

    "how is it again, that sitting in a plywood tray and traversing violent expanses of white water is a good idea"

    or

    "how is it again, that hanging beneath a mansized kite several hundred feet above the ground is a good idea"

    Ect Ect ad infinitum.

    I guess people just do the funniest things.
    Dee Cee
     
  21. It all comes down to who is most qualified to make decisions about my life, me or the government. I am inclined to believe that I am more qualified than the government to evaluate the risk and consequences of my behaviors. If I want to participate in an occasional joint why shouldn’t I be able to? Most pot smokers that I know are capable of stopping whenever they need to. They are also less inclined to violence and general stupidity than the alcoholics that I have known. Most of the old pot heads I know may have tried other harder drugs but settled on pot because it has far fewer adverse effects on their health and lives than the hard stuff. From what I have seen the physical effects are far lighter than cigarettes. It aggravates me that the government is wasting my money to enforce a failed policy to control my right to engage in a private behavior.
     
  22. Facial Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,220
    Alaska should legalize it. Tobacco is legal only because of tradition.
     
  23. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    53,766
    That is exactly why they should not be illegal. Most of the bad things about addiction are the result of their prohibition. Make them available to those that can prove they are addicts, at the same time get them into treatment programs. Invest in the research to find new treatments, and give them clean needles to prevent HIV.
     

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