Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ejderha, Dec 29, 2010.
You are the asylum.
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first i'd like to address morals. i have an aversion to the idea of morality because of my experience, which encourages me to love people. wouldn't you agree that some people's morality discourages love? morality is just a bunch of rules people conjure up, in an attempt to convince themselves and others, that they are good people. it's ego-based, and generally doesn't have anything to do with love. it separates people more than anything. it oppresses people, isolates people. people go to war over it!
secondly, relationships mustn't be and aren't according to my beliefs, even my own! in an idealistic sense, humanity and society would be very different than it is today, if i had my way. but someone has to believe, or else it will never be manifest. i believe that there is a way for people to love each other completely all the time, and always act in accordance with the greater good. it's communion.
in the bible, restoring communion is the purpose of christ, and is a oneness with god that brings us all together. the relationship is entirely and completely holistic and honest and committed, and based in love and trust that is real. the bible also refers to this relationship as a marriage, in which THE church, is the bride. it says marriage is when two people become one in the flesh, and that is accomplished in christ. that's why the ritual involves eating his flesh and drinking his blood. what disturbs me, is that a lot of people confuse the ritual for the relationship that it is supposed to represent. in a broader sense, you could say that religion in general, is used by a lot of people, to take the place of having a real relationship with god.
so certainly you can see how in the bible, referring to religion as a "whore" would be appropriate, in contrast to the communal relationship with god and each other. this isn't about whether you or i think prostitution is right or wrong, it's about the difference between this communal relationship (which i described earlier), and the relationship that is sought and achieved with a prostitute. with a prostitute, it's a superficial business transaction in lieu of, or even in avoidance of, communion. if you said you didn't see the difference between these two relationships, then i said you were either a liar or pathetic. do you understand what i mean by that now? i don't think that an in depth discussion of prostitution is appropriate in this thread but i think this song sums up very well, how i feel about prostitution and religion.
edit: btw, this video is a great example of what i'm referring to in regards to morality. the last line of that song is actually, "fuck you! it's for you!" but because of someone's morality, the lyric was edited out of the video, because some people think the word "fuck" is a bad word, that only bad people use or want to hear. that's oppression, not love.
i think you've made it clear that's what it would mean for you dear. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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see now, phlogistician is one of those people who are not open to certain experience, and does not trust his own experience, and has made it pretty clear that if he were to experience some of what i have, instead of finding meaning in it, he would most likely commit himself to an asylum and be doused with mind-numbing drugs, in an effort to escape from it. isn't that right phlog?
this is a song by one of my favorite bands, that reminds me of communion, and the kingdom of christ, and THE church vs a church...
"the way" he is singing about is obviously not indoctrination.
i wouldn't put the weight of the world on the pope's shoulders. lol...i'll keep it for myself. when it's supposed to be about personal experience and accountability, indoctrination is just passing the buck.
here's an awesome song about religion and prostitution from one of my all time favorite records just for fun...
The Pope doesn't think in soundbites.
He's not some shabby newspaper hack producing headlines to sell tomorrow's chip paper.
He is definitely not saying that pedophilia is normal and therefore OK.
That is a calumny on the man's name. It's a bare faced lie.
Let me tell you the Catholic church's view on pornography.
It sees all pornography as gravely sinful. All pornography.
It sees it as degrading to the person viewing it, and the person, the object, being viewed.
It has always said that, and it always will.
All types of pornography are becoming normalised. No question about it.
The kind of stuff that you would need to venture into the the most dark-lit back street to obtain, is now available on a bright coloured screen in your own home, just like the screen you are looking at now.
I can see a future where young people are so exposed to extreme and degrading forms of sex, that they are made impotent by it.
I'm going to leave this thread now, and not come back for a while.
I am so hopping mad that I might give the person replying to me more trouble than they deserve.
i can understand the pope being taken out of context..most atheist are good at that..
there is also the defintion of 'normal' some define it as a moral measure, others use it in the context of majority, in science it becomes the majority..
religico's use it as a moral measure,pry because there is a standard of behaviour in a church and normal is the majority in there..
there becomes a point where there is too much of that..
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It doesn't sound like the pope was justifying paedophilia. Maybe I misunderstood the linked article, but it did sound more like something was taken out of context and blown out of proportion, or purposefully misinterpreted.
you know that means sanctuary don't you? that's ok with me. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Lori, we speak completely different languages and see the world in a completely different way. There is no need to babble on it, as there is no way we could agree.
This is exactly the core of the problem.
He SHOULD HAVE treated crimes against children seperately.
He SHOULD HAVE stood tall and made a strong appearance on this issue.
By treating it as just a part of common pornography, he is helping the issue to be seen as something trivial when it's not.
This men is accepted as the divine leader by almost 2 billion people. They're taking his word as the law at times.
And what do you expect victims to think about it? "Oh, this is the world today, because the Pope says it is, so nevermind that I got raped."?!
There is a very clear ground that must be taken here. We need to protect children first. Period.
And you hopping mad doesn't change anything a bit. Your self-rightousness and hypocrisy is disgusting.
Normalising homosexuality was objected to, back in the day, to no avail.
Once you open the door there will be no stopping the protests of what
is regarded as abnormal sex practices.
It will eventually become a matter of media debate in which all the dissenters
will be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness.
neither of us are using translation software, this is a discussion forum, we're both human beings, and we live in the same world. don't you like my muses?
this is true, and it's entirely incorrect for reasons i've already stated. don't you see, that your position actually supports and validates this atrocity? and not the atrocity of child abuse, but the atrocity that this man is accepted in this way by multitudes.
fuck the pope.
and if anyone needs the pope to tell them whether it's ok to molest a child or not,
then fuck them too.
Did you just compare consentual sex between adults with child rape?
Or are you too unable to understand the difference?
No it's not that Lori, you mostly really lose me. I've never had faith, you know how I am with religions. I try to keep up and say something but most of the time I think you're a moron. You probably think the same for me. So I will get in where I can. I am trying.
i don't think you're a moron.
and i think my last post was pretty straight forward. i'm a christian, and that's what i think. :shrug:
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this is scripture containing some of what jesus had to say about religious people...
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
First of all, who is talking about rape?
Do you think all sex commited by adult males with children, rape?
But you're right, the general public protest against homosexual activity (back in the day) was the same as the child sex protests you display. Both were/are rife within the catholic priesthood. There is no comparison.
Separate names with a comma.