Please help me understand the expansion of space

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by markl323, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    And neither is the stretching of light-rays, which, if you squint and turn your head to the side just right, start to seem more like massless particles?

    I guess the point is that since photons have no mass they exert no gravitic attraction on each other. So there's nothing to retard their movement away from each other, as there is with atoms and even stars and planets?
     
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  3. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Mark323,
    The short answer is yes but not really. Everything exhibits a cosmological red-shift (Z), our sun included. Even though the strength of gravity can overcome the strength of exansion, photons are always affected by the expansion of space (Z). For example, the Andromeda galaxy is gravitationally bound to the Milky Way yet it still exhibits a Z relative to its known distance.
    .
    Here's an abstract way I use to visualize this phenomena:
    Picture a triangle. All triangles are made up of three points (A, B and C), three angles (also A, B and C) and three sides (a, b and c). Lets say that point B represents the observer, point C represents the thing being observed and point A represents the Big Bang. Basic trigonometry tells us that, for any given moment, the observed distance between points B & C can be derived from that triangle's A angle. Now imagine that point A is falling away from points B & C at a constant rate (299,792,458 m/s). As it falls the A angle becomes smaller. This can be thought of as time. When a photon is released from point C it becomes "encoded" with its distance from point A. Ad that photon travels between points C & B its relationship to A changes and, as it stretches so does all the other information "encoded" by that photon. Actually, you can use that A angle's rate of change to find the observed value for Z at point C according to point B's frame of reference.
    .
    To summarize:
    1) The closer point A is to point C at the time a photon is released, the younger point C will appear to point B relative to point B's observed age.
    2) If points B &C are close to each other then the A angle has less time to change (smaller Z).
    .
    Like I said, this is an abstract comcept so take it with a grain of salt.
     
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  5. wlminex Banned Banned

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    Expanding Universe

    Yes . . . the universe IS expanding . . . but NOT from a Big Bang (BB)episode. Expansion is a Steady-State (ugh!) phenomenon. The rate of expansion is directly proportional to the rate of cosmic background radiation production. CBR is not a "left-over" from a BB, but rather a continuous product from the virtual state condition (which I call Subquantal Reality, or SQR) transition to our observable matter condition (which I call Material Reality, or MR). As SQR (the land of virtual particles, quarks, and pre-quarks) transcends to MR (the land of our "hard", observable, detectible stuff), an energy threshold is crossed (kind of like water going over a waterfall). The only way back across this energy threshold is via blackholes (or, carry the water back above the waterfall in buckets). The difference in SQR energy levels (>>>> high!) and MR energy levels (<< lower than SQR) is represented by CBR. CBR is not isotropic (proven!), thus expansion is happening at slightly variable rates within the space-time matrix. Now the tough part to visualize . . . . SQR permeates (omnipresent) MR, so expansion is happening 'everwhere' . . . at the same time. I envision SQR to be superluminal, undetectible and unobservable (except by inference from CBR), and MR to be limited by C. Crossing the C threshold (energy drop or anisotropies in SQR) generates the CBR + MR. I won't even hint at the theological implications of this hypothesis. Send me an email and request a more complete discussion of this hypothesis.
     
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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm, this sounds like idle ruminations after a few bongs. I call this Bad Science (BS). If you have anything more than unfounded conjecture please present it and prove me incorrect.
     
  8. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Word salad, none of which has any meaning.
     
  9. wlminex Banned Banned

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    Origin & AlexG:

    Perhaps idle ruminations . . . . but I don't do bongs . . . perhaps you do . . . get 'outside the box' sometime . . . . u-m-m 'salad' . . . sounds great right now! . . . regards
     
  10. wlminex Banned Banned

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    SQR ---> CBR+MR+ . . . gravitons? . . . . SQR ~ dark matter?
     
  11. wlminex Banned Banned

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    also . . . . string theorists should study "rope (twist) theory" . . . to yield alternatives to multiple dimensions.
     
  12. markl323 Registered Senior Member

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    :bugeye:
     
  13. esbo Registered Senior Member

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    But lets face it the gravity in the early universe would be colossal, unimaginably strong, so it is hard to see hhow that could have expanded is the relatively non existent gravity of the sun prevents expansion.
     

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