Pakistan - Destabilization & Division

Every country is vulnerable to instability, and every country seeks strategic advantage over other ones.

 

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I believe Iceland is planning the annexation of the entire Scandinavia.

 

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Pakistan doesn't fear India. Muslim countries in general do not fear invasions, even on the eve of war, you will not find Muslims worried for their own safety. If you are destined to be martyred, there is nothing that can be done to change this, if there is a bullet out there with your name on it, again you will not be able to dodge it. For some though, a million bombs and bullets will fall around them and not even produce a scratch. What hits you was not going to miss you, and that what misses you was not going to hit you.

Muslims believe in destiny (Arabic = Qadr), that is why we do not have fears, regrets etc.

Anyway, how is Pakistan occupying and oppressing Afghanistan? Last I heard, America had invaded Afghanistan, installed a puppet leader, endorsed drug-lords and criminals all while routinely dropping bombs on innocent Afghans. India is also sticking its nose into Afghanistan and Pakistan trying to cause further destabilisation.

You can’t be serious.

America doesn't give a shit about Afghanis.

 

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The Israelis and Indians want to try to drive a wedge between Afghanis and Pakistani people, don't give them much attention. Atleast, we know that people of Afghanistan and Pakistan are one people. No matter the disinformation from the enemies of our people, it will forever remain so. God bless Afghanistan and Pakistan, and give us victory over our enemies. Ameen.

 

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Seems the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, are doing a good job of that all by themselves, It isn't the Israelis or Indians who are in the Swat Valley and South Waziristan, fighting the Pakistani Army, it is Muslims of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, who are waging war on and in Pakistan.

 

Allah ma3kum, DH (really).

 

Pakistan most certainly does fear India, otherwise they wouldn't insist on having a huge military presence on the border. And I have many muslim friends and acquaintances who have expressed their fear of war, and I've heard their cries of terror in the news. Destiny or not, thankfully most muslims seem to have enough self-preservation instincts to not be seeking constant war.

The Taliban are known to be a creation of Pakistan's intelligence service and are known to have been created and supported with the specific intention of overtaking Afghanistan. The occupation and extreme oppression imposed by the Taliban are Pakistan's direct responsibilities. 3000 Americans died in an attack planned and organized in Afghanistan's training camps- if that had never happened, America wouldn't be there now. How many Pakistanis did the Afghans ever kill before Pakistan decided to take them over?

I'm dead serious. Pakistan has been BSing the world about "brotherhood" between themselves and their Afghan neighbours for quite some time, and even if America doesn't care for Afghans as much as Swedes or Dutchmen, at least their goal isn't to chop Afghan hands off until the populace agrees to side with them in a future war against India. This quote from DiamondHearts proves my point:

As you can see, Pakistan at the moment is trapped in a number of silly delusions about the state of their crumbling nation and their relations with sovereign and distinctly foreign nations such as Afghanistan. The Afghans don't want to be part of Pakistan's stupid wars and extremist violence, so Pakistan should leave them alone and start worrying about the rotting mess accumulating closer to home. We'll see to it that Pakistan leaves them alone, one way or another.

 

Israeli propaganda, all of it. You should go back to Israeli-Palestinian threads, your knowledge here is obviously limited.

Afghanistan and Pakistan represent the only two nations with large ethnic Pukhtoon populations. Pakistan containing 75% of the world Pukhtoon population, Afghanistan accounting for the rest of the 25%. Nearly a third of the Pukhtoons of Afghans have lived in Pakistan during some portion of their lives. Many Afghani students come to Pakistan, because their educational system is in perpetual ruin, due to constant wars imposed on them. Afghanistan-Pakistan trade represents the vast majority of all foreign revenue and food into Afghanistan. Furthermore, both Afghanistan and Pakistan were provinces of the Mughal Empire, and both people engaged in a regional 150 year guerrilla war against British control of the region (one which is constantly excised from Indian textbooks). Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are further influenced by Persian and Turkish culture. Before the British forcibly installed English as the major scholastic language in South Asia, the Muslims of the region spoke Farsi to communicate with each other. Furthermore, Afghanistan and Pakistan were provinces in the Persian empire for many years. Dari, a language in Afghanistan, is a dialect of Farsi. Not to mention the fact that their religion is the same, and both of these nations share a joint history stretching from literally 4,000 years ago, being of Aryan heritage. The realms of Pakistan and Afghanistan were the only regions in South Asia to remain Buddhist after the Buddhist-Hindu civil wars around the years Islam entered the subcontinent. Majority of the Buddhists embraced Islam, except for Punjab which remained Hindu for another several hundred years or so until finally embracing Islam.

Basically, learn your history Cptbork.

Hypewaters, may Allah (God) bless all those who struggle for truth, wherever they may be or whatever religion they may be from. God promises the reward for the truthful and righteous. Oppression cannot last forever.

 

You can say similar things about the US relations with Mexico. But that would not excuse the kinds of operations Pakistan has been launching against Afghanistan, with the Taliban etc over many years now, from the US against Mexico.

If you want to legitimately unite Pakistan and Afghanistan, and the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan both supported that, the means would not be military as we see.

 

I'd bet even money that there is a divide in Pakistan between the Pashtun and non-Pashtun factions, with the non-Pashtuns fighting the NWFP.

This makes no sense. The violence is moving from Afghanistan to Pakistan, due to the aerial bombing displacing the locals [about 3 million at last count in the Swat valley alone] and the Afghan refugees moving into Pakistan to get away from the western drones bombing their villages and homes. Afghan refugees have been moving to India, Iran and Pakistan [I've even seen them in Bombay] since the US funded proxy wars with the Soviets more than 20 years ago, when the Americans gave power, arms and money to the "extremists".

 

That's great, but are you arguing for a united Pukhtoonkhwa or a united Afghanistan and Pakistan?

Because the Pukhtoon represent only 15% of Pakistan's population, and around 40% of Afghanistan. Where do the majorities of the populations of Afghanistan and Pakistan figure into this calculus? Aren't they entitled to a say in the fates of their countries?

 

The non-Pashtun Afghans tried it once by going communist. Unfortunately that did not work out too well.

 

Ah, so you think it was the Pashtuns of Afghanistan who undertook a coup to overthrow the king in favour of a communist government?

Possible, but unlikely.

 

Both the King and his overthrower were from the same ethnic group: they were cousins, after all. But the communist government wasn't installed by the king's overthrower, but rather those who overthrew him.

Afghan politics were dominated by various Pashtun factions throughout all of these governments. It is a mistake to try to put the Pashtuns on one side and everyone else on the other.

That isn't to say that various factions didn't seek to portray themselves representing Pashtun nationalism (just as we see Diamondhearts doing here today), but that stuff has always been more rhetoric than reality.

 

Speaking of Israeli-Palestinian threads, it's funny you should question my credibility here when I already caught you in one of those threads using a fake quote from a provably fake source. I don't know as much as others about the history of the Indian subcontinent, but I know enough to see the stupidity in your quixotic struggle and the way you and your countrymen are carrying it out.

And as others have been pointing out, they comprise a minority in both nations.

What you're advocating is like Spain claiming ownership of Greece because they were both part of the Roman Empire and both converted to christianity. You simply don't understand the concept of self-determination, which goes beyond racial and cultural ties/similarities. Under international law, the points you make are essentially irrelevant even if they had applied to a majority of Afghans, because they give no grounds for Pakistan to claim authority over its neighbour. A clear majority of Afghans have indicated they do not seek to be dominated by anyone, Pakistan included. If they change their minds on that, it will be reflected in their vote. You're no more entitled to lord over Afghanistan than Britain was to lord over America, so if you can't bring yourselves to treat them as sovereign equals, then we'll just have to step in like we're doing now. The violence you're experiencing in your country now is the direct result of you losing your grip on the leash of the monster you yourselves created.

Given the way you reflexively blame Israel, America and the West for practically everything bad but the weather, I think you should listen to your own advice. Not every news source is a red herring like some of the sources you've used in the past, and not all history textbooks plaster photos of the publishing nation's president smiling as he does "good deeds" for the common folk on every second page.

 

An example of the Taliban bombing soldiers giving out candy as well as the kids receiving it:

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=b63bbd28-fded-46e6-aaf1-3489fb7a5d54&k=12319

That's just one example out of many demonstrating what the Taliban are all about. As far as videos go, there's no shortage of videos on the web illustrating their barbarism, I'm sure even the Pakistani news have been showing clips now that Pakistan has become a victim of its own violence.

 

Frontier Corps are a whole Pukhtoon faction. Majority of the soldiers fighting against TTP are Pukhtoons. Therefore the point is irrelevant.

Pakistan contains 75% of the world Pukhtoon population, this means that most Pukhtoons in the world are Pakistani. The presence of Pukhtoon Pakistanis largely shapes Pakistan's relationship with Afghanistan as a brother Pukhtoon nation. Also, Pukhtoon are the majority ethnic group in Afghanistan, they are the natives of the country. Many of the other minorities entered during the Soviet invasion.

LOL, Israelis discussing Muslim issues. Complete zero understanding of anything of the region.

The majority of Pakistanis have ethnic relation of Pukhtoon in some way or another. Much like Iran, Pakistan is a Muslim federation of several Islamic people whom are bounded together by a common heritage (Mughal, Indus, Aryan).

It's funny how some Israelis tempt to even argue with Pukhtoons about their own 'Pukhtoon-ness.' It's hilarious. I guess this is what happens to a nation which defines all relations with all Muslim states as antagonistic, simply to legitimize their genocide and oppression of Muslim in Palestine.

 

Cptbork, where is this clear majority which hates Pakistan? Is it perhaps the 10 million Afghani Pukhtoons who now live in Pakistan with their relatives there? Perhaps it is the 30% of Afghanis who have lived in Pakistan, during one portion of their life or another. Perhaps it is among the children of Afghanistan who study in Pakistani schools and universities. Pukhtoon will always love Pukhtoon, wherever they are, they are one people. Pakistan is a federation of Muslim states, Punjabis, Sindhis, Baloch, Brahui, Kashmiris, Nuristani, Pukhtoon, and those of Iranian, Turkish, Arab, Mongolian roots, all are brothers and relatives of each other. Al Biruni wrote a book entitled 'Kitab ul Hind,' you should take a look at it. It offers extensive information of both the history of Sind/Hind regions, and the establishment of Islam in this land.

 

But why do pakisthani muslims suicide bomb pakisthani muslims? - even in mosques?

Your theory is a nice dream, but just a nice dream. There are bigger things at work in pakisthan than religion or being pukhtoon or mojahir etc. Sorry.