The Universe is mostly full of frames of reference divorced from your reality. Yet, you're shocked, shocked, you tell us, to realize how little your opinion actually accounts for in the Grand Scheme of Things. Your's is a very limited reality. All you had to do is ask. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
? i don't know how to respond. Your ranting as if i have said something along the lines how i just realized my opinion is one of many while at the same time taking a tone that suggests you think your self better than others. Are you going to say something relevant or continue to say things a blind retarded fig could figure out and act as if you saying something profound?
I'm a Darwinist. It is in my best interest to believe I am better than others. Then it's in my best interest to actually be better. That you seem to be whining makes my subscription to Darwinism all the easier. Don't fret all that much. You're in good company. Many of the young bucks around here think I'm their easy prey, too. Hasn't much turned out like that, has it? They whine, too. Maybe you should start listening to the blind, retarded fig's who can figure better than you whiners. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
My son just graduated from one of the best schools in the state. He's going to college, but something like 20% of his graduating class are joining the military. It seems like all the boys in his class are either going to college to become engineers (like my son), or joining the military (usually the marines). One member of his graduating class actually graduated early so he could join the marines. He attended the recent graduation ceremony in his full marine uniform and (contrary to the rule about not applauding for individual students until they've all received their diplomas) received a standing ovation from the audience. People in the midwest are patriotic and will continue to join the military whether we're at war or peace. I resent your characterization of the US military as a bunch of thugs. Yes, there are some bad apples, but there are over 100,000 guys over there. Of course a few of them are bad. But the vast majority are honorable and doing their best to defend their country.
Indeed. It's a shame the bad apples give the rest a bad name. That being said however, when bad apples are caught and tried, they should face the penalties and not be let off as some of them appear to have been. That also gives those who are honourable and doing their best in a bad situation a bad name.
Mad im not sure if you saw the earlier debate but do you think that joining the DF should be a compleatly volenteery choice or do you think cohersion is aceptable? (be that criminal, finantial or more subtle) By criminal cohersion i dont mean holding a gun to someones head i mean its an offence NOT to serve (ie a draft) The more subtle forms i refer to are probably less subtle than the second one but i dont have another way of refering to it. I mean things like trickery, deception ect like the two marine recruiters on the michael more film who asked for a guys details "to cross him off the list" inspite of the fact that he said under no circumstances did he want to serve. Or the sort of thing that you see on TV shows where recruiters lie about where people will serve or what they will be doing to get them to sign a contract and then they are traped (I dont know if this is really going on in the US but its an example, see One shot one kill eposode of NCIS for what im talking about) And finally finantial, ie putting people in so much debt through there higher education fees that they dont have a choice BUT to join just to get themselves out of that debt. Do you think using these methods is an acceptable way of getting people to risk there lives or should it be compleatly volenteery on there part. As well i was thinking would someone forced into joining make as good a solder (or worse) than someone who signed up because thats what they wanted to do?
I don't support the draft. A democracy that can't attract enough volunteers to fight a war shouldn't be fighting that war. I don't believe anything I see in a Michael Moore film. But, if it really happened, I'd of course be against tricking someone into joining the military. That's not coersion, that's offering a benefit to those who sign up. There's nothing wrong with that. I believe a volunteer force is superior to a draft.
Bells, if they are tried and convicted they are not let off, if they are found innocent, they have done nothing wrong, and deserve no punishment. To many here convict with trial by news paper, conviction is the territory of the jury, after all the facts have been presented, and if those fact don't add up to guilt, the individual is Innocent. The Constitution presumes the Right of Innocence until proven guilty.
madanthonywayne: "but there are over 100,000 guys over there. Of course a few of them are bad. But the vast majority are honorable and doing their best to defend their country." Considering that our Iraq adventure has been revealed to not involve the defense of the USA, and since it has become clear to an overwhelming majority that the war should not have been initiated, I contend that all that they can be in terms of "their best" will never be found in Iraq. For all the best intentions of many participants, the entire escapade has been fully revealed as a policy disgrace. The best and brightest of USAmericans will confront this reality, and better serve the common good when we stop allowing patriotic platitudes and atrophy of dissent to conceal the hard truth.
What about the flag you believe in? Darwin would be surprised at the apparently useless, but nonetheless conserved characteristic of flag-waving, common to some variants of the species, surely?
The question is whether an honorable person who wanted to do their best to defend their country could join the US military or remain in it, given the past fifty years of events and the current situation. At some point, an individual in a democracy can no longer claim ignorance or good intentions.
Mad i agree with you to a point. That point is where it stops being an incentive and starts becoming a nessesity. Compare the Australian and US educational methods. In Australia we pay the greatest portion of educational fees out of tax The student contributions (called HECS) are automatically defered. These are only paid off once you earn over a certain amount and they are paid back as a higher income tax rate. If you die with this debt still owing then the debt disapears and doesnt get taken out of your estate. This means that those who earn more through the tax payments of others pay back this debt but if you never earn enough the debt doesnt interfear in your life (ie it doesnt go against your credit rating, cant send you bankrupt, doesnt stop you getting loans to buy a house ect). The payment threshold (as well as the debt itself) are ajusted to match CPI so that the equivlant debt level is still relivent and so that the thresholds are still fair. Now in Australia the DF will pay this debt in full for you as well as pay you while you study if you give them the same number of years as you study plus 2. You cant be called up while your studying, infact your not even trained untill you become a serving member of the DF AFTER your degree finishes (unless you do something like officer training or an aprenticeship though the DF which is different again). The reserves have there own benifits, with the main one being that all earnings are tax free and dont effect wealfare payments. All service through the reserves is compleatly volentry and you cant be ordered ANYWHERE. You do your one day a week, 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year and thats it. In order to order a reservist to fight the goverment has to change the legislation which would result in mass desertion as you can quit whenever you want as well. The US education system on the other hand causes students to acumilate huge levels of REAL debt (with all that goes with it). This means that, the army for some becomes not an atractive career option but the only way they can aford to study. Education is an economic issue rather than a social one. Which is why econimiousts are the ones who are at the front of the group who want goverment paid education followed closly by buinesses because the benifits are to the WHOLE of sociaty rather than to those who recive the education (though they oviously benifit to)
How is occupying a foreign country and destroying it, killing hundreds of thousands and making millions homeless, in any way, defensive? Thats like saying you are defending yourself by occupying your neighbors house and shooting his entire family when they defend themselves from the armed nutjob sitting in their living room.
Yes, education is expensive. I'm still paying off my student loans. But I incurred no debt as an undergrad by simply working my way thru. I had to go into debt in Optometry school because it was much more expensive and a lot harder (it took up more of my time, leaving less for work.) Also, I was married with a child which made my expenses infinitely higher. So the military isn't the only way to pay for your education. And I don't think military service is too much to ask if you want the governent to pay for your education.
MadA don't you know that W-O-R-K is a four letter word. To many, want others to do the hard part for them, and then skip off to reap the Benefits, and leave the Tax payer holding the bag.
I joined for the following reasons: Get to kill brown people Chicks dig the uniform Automatic weapons = awesome Jesus told me to
Deflect by joke if you want to, the question remains. The US probably would be better defended through mass desertion and refusal of service by honorable soldiers, than by cooperation and obedience in such ventures as Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Colombia, etc. These BS imperial ventures are doing real damage to the country. At some point ignorance is no excuse, in a democracy with access to information. What is that point ?
