Other Worlds and Creationism

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Yazdajerd, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Yazdajerd Behold... The Bringer of Light Registered Senior Member

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    Although the title would imply either a scientifical arguement or a paranormal issue, I did want to raise it as a religious one.

    Now, frankly, alomost all evolutionists are athiests or gnostics...... all creationists are religious. Hence I find the issue applying to a religious one.

    The other day on Discovery channel, there was a program about "if life existed elsewere in the cosmos"...........

    One of the astronomists claimed that the existance of other "intelligent" life-forms on other distant planets would finally answer the question of evolutionism versus creationism.........

    Irrespective to what I think, I don't see how the question of the existance of other life on other planets would eliminate creationism.........

    Suppose we were to assume God exists, and he created this Earth and the life on it............ wouldn't it be possible for God to create another planet with other life on it?? :bugeye:

    I, for one, believe in God and consider myself religious, and I also strongly think that other "capable of logical thinking" life forms do exist on other planets ((PS: this doesn't mean I beleive in the paranormal encouters with "Aliens", because I don't........ but that is another issue))

    To us Shi'ites a saying was quoted from Imam Ali that he was asked about the planets in the heavens, he replied: "They are cities like the ones on Earth". So to me, finding those life forms would strengthen that belief not falsefy it.

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    So, what do you think??
     
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  3. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    I do not discount life on other planets, and I do not percieve it contrary to theological findings.
    However there are some things to consider:

    1) If no life were found this would not satisfy Evolutionist/non-religionists. The Universe is so huge they would say that we have not looked at all possibilities.
    2) If there were intelligent life, it would be humanlike, given that the intellect of Man is a spiritual gift of God. If they were intelligent they would also be religious, and probably smart enough to disprove the theory of Evolution once and for all. I believe that this is the ironic situation that will eventually unfold.
    3) Angelic life is also extraterrestrial, and although they are invisible, we know of their existance and have already communicated with them in the old testament. Their technology is so advanced they dont need instruments such as radios. Then can travel faster than the speed of light. They have told us about the Majestic and Holy God that dwells beyond the stars. They also warned us about the hostile ETs, ie, the fallen angels.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2005
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  5. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    Could god have created the process of evolution?

    a great prophet once said "in my fathers house there are many mansions".
     
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  7. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    ellion, your proposal would go against Occam's razor.
     
  8. Yorda Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, right. WE ARE THE FALLEN ANGELS! The so called Anakim (sons of Anak, the 'giant' humans - also called the Sons of God and Nephilim etcetcetc)
     
  9. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    this question has been answered already
    evolution is a fact how it happens is a theory

    www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

    creationism is nonsense

    www.talkreason.org
     
  10. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    care to explain? please dont link me to an article!
     
  11. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Of course it wouldn't satisfy us as to the validity or non-validity of evolution or to the existence of God.
    Even if the entire Universe was observed and we were the only life forms found, all it would show was that we are unique in that respect.
    Nothing else could logically be read in to it, nor should it.
    A lack of evidence for the existence of one thing is NOT evidence for the existence of another.



    LOL!!
    No offence, but do you actually read what you write?


    ROTFLMFAO!! It just gets better and better.
    Please don't ever leave this site - I haven't had such a good laugh in ages!!

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  12. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    Agreed, and I add that were intelligent life found,
    Atheistic Scientists and Evolutionists would consider it a victory
    (inappropriately by your own decree above) for their
    own philosophic and (commonly unscientific) views. In the same way, Creationists and proponents of Intelligent Design should not consider
    the lack of other intelligent life (or other life) support for
    their philosophic and theological views.
    However, since finding life, primordial or otherwise, does not
    prove first cause, they would still have to answer the question: where did
    the alien life derive from.

    Sarkus,
    Since you laugh and mock my propositions,
    revealing little ability to counter them,
    I suppose answering with counter
    arguments would be unproductive.
    However, consider that your view
    appears equally absurd to those who believe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2005
  13. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    Well there must be other life.. Some Martians, Jupiterians, and so on, otherwise why did god make them all? He had a cosmic game of billiards planned or what? But I agree with Lawdog - everything's invisible, but it does exist.. honest guv.
     
  14. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    1,050
    SnakeLord, I do not know what your last statement implied, but here is my reasoning that invisible beings exist:

    1) Not all that exists is sensible, although it may be indirectly discerned by the senses: take for example mathematic axioms. Not discernible in themselves by the senses. They are intellective realities and laws, the truths of which are discernible by the intellect, which itself is not visible.

    2) Since a given intellect is not a power discernible by the senses directly, it likely does not need a physical vessel. One could propose that there exists more advanced intellects than the human, therefore the most advanced intellects would likely not require physical bodies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2005
  15. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    exactly, else there would be no xians.
    absolute rubbish, if it indirectly or directly effects the senses it cant be invisible.
     
  16. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    (I think the line should be;
    Not all that exists has an effect on our 5 primary senses. )

    But the main point I would like to make is that, surely finding life on other planets in the universe would make spontaneous and random evolution of life less probable?

    It could happen once yes, but if we say found intellifgent life on say hundreds of planets in the future, this can hardly be called a random and spontaneous event.
     
  17. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    audible, sound is not visible!
    thought! there are others im sure things which are sensed by one sense but missed by others, scent! could there possibly be things that exist that are not sensed by any of the feeble five?
     
  18. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    954
    a tree is not visible to a blind man, but it's still effects his other four senses.
    you can still hear sound, or is'nt hearing one of the senses.
     
  19. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    Wrong. The written mathematic equation for instance is not direct visible evidence of a mathematic truth, but a symbolic demonstration of a truth. The truth itself which cannot be sensed by the five senses, but only comprehended by means of written spacial symbols.
     
  20. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    but it's indirect, firstly in the subjective mind, as is all things, until it can be shown to be true by the objective mind.otherwise it remains in the realms of the imagination.
    by your subjective mind, personally to you only, if it is written anywhere other than your subjective mind then it is solid.
     
  21. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

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    i think you missed the point or you ignored it for arguments sake.

    there are things that exist which are not tangible to all of the senses, do you agree? sound is a great example cause you cant smell it you cant taste ityou cant see it with the anked eye. my point is there are things that are not directly percievible by our five senses.
     
  22. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    954
    yes it only effects, two senses.
    one instant of this would'nt go amiss, could you produce one instant of something, that does not effect the five sense. else it is only subjective, therefore your own personal beliefs, and imaginings.
    james randi will pay a million to anybody who can, I would also if I could afford it.
     
  23. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    To use mathematics as a reasoning for the existence of invisible beings is hilariously fallacious (non-sequitor).

    Intellect requires a physical vessel.
    Intellect is a by-product of the physical vessel - and in the case of all animals we know it is the by-product of a very specific part of the overall body.


    And Ellion - if something is missed by ALL of our "feeble" five senses then it is deemed and defined as abstract.
    It can thus only exist in the intellect - such as maths, logic, beauty etc.
    To exist outside the intellect it HAS to be visible to at least one of the senses (albeit that it may exist outside the actual range of our own senses - e.g. most EM waves, ultra-sonics etc.)
    And I think Audible was saying "exist" as in "non-abstract existence".
    Yes, thoughts exist - but these are abstract.
     

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