Opposite of logic?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Spectrum, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. Spectrum Registered Senior Member

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    Within my studies I have been led to a place where one may not use logic to discover truth. So, does anyone know of any way I may learn truth, without using logic, or should we consider that to study 'the reverse' of logic is to presume a logical content of that study? Put simply; by searching for the opposite of logic are we using logical study here to find truth?

    Any ideas anyone?
     
  2. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    8,312
    Where is this place?

    Are you talking about the absence of logic, or the opposite of logic. They are not the same, yet you appear to equate them. Is this because you are now in a place where logic does not exist?
     
  3. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    6,585
    Hi Spectrum, what you might like to do---i am. issss, see how limited is the accepted NOTION of logic. for example i have just begun reading a book--a beautiful looking book, and its aim is also beautiful. wanna know what it is?
    it/s titled Critique of Patriarchal Reason, by Artur Evans, with artwork by Frank Pietronigro
    her's abit from back of book----'A philosopher and an artist join hands in tis book to reclaim philosphy as an art...Their book shows how patriarchal biases haveinfected formal logic, higher mathematics, and the scientific method. It demonstrates the harmful impact of tese biases on women, gay people, artists, indigenos societies, and the natural environment. In place of these biases, the book offers a new, liberating view of the role of reason in human life...." dont know where you are. i'm in UK, and had wanted this book for ages. theonly source in UK--rare books quoted me £40 for a copy. sos i got a friend to order it from here www.alibris.com and i got this lovely book for just over £11......!!
    btw its ISBN is 0964538415

    now somepersonal thoughts about what yous askin

    i see logic as NOT opposite but like all seeming oppo-sites is kind of intermigled throughut the complimentary preocess. so for example, as Chos Theory has shown, what MAY seem like chaos--defined as meaningless mess by limited logic--is in fact a very complex...? what efer you wanna call it, which can bifurcate into nocel new ways of forms and experiences etc

    psychedelic experience is a great example of this. have you had psychedelic experience?
     
  4. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    10,848
    from my experiences, the opposite of logic, is instinct, natural flow, logic requires calculation/free thought. premeditation,

    you could say instinct is a type of logic, a subconscious instinctive logic for survival,
    but i assume the logic you speak of is in the terms of human logic, and what seems logical to us,

    i believe non thought, going with the natural flow of a situation is the opposite to deciding a choice due to logic,

    natural built in reaction,


    peace.
     
  5. Spectrum Registered Senior Member

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    To be honest Ophiolite I am trying to define emotion, but quantifying the reverse does not help. For example we may say that love is the opposite of hate, and that hate may be defined as the destruction of life, but then here love must be defined as the creation of death. These are not opposites, they are the same, wouldn't you agree? So then, we must either study the creation of life, or the destruction of death (immortality). Whatever the case, the logic is flawed and I am looking for a method of study when dealing with non-logical entities.
    Either is fine.
    I think so.

    Duendy and EmptyforceofChi: thanks for your posts, I liked what you put but I haven't got time to reply right now, but I will try in the future.
     
  6. Votorx Egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    1,126
    Yes, take a calculator punch in the sequence "2 + 2" and you will gain truth without using your logic. But is that so? You went to this calculator in search of its truth, because logically you know this device will spit back out the correct answer to the numerical equation you put in. Ultimately you used logic in search of this answer.

    Now someone tries to find the capital of New York and goes to the same calculator in search of the truth. He then punches in numbers trying to find the answer. Did he do this because he's absent of logic? No, he did this because he doesn't know better, its called ignorance and even in one's ignorance logic still exists.

    So no, under no circumstance is there an absence of logic, only in the artificial world can truth be reached without it. But then again, technology is just a by product of our own logic and imprinted with it too, so is it not still using logic? I think to some degree it is
     
  7. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Truth and logic are interdependent. They can't be seperated.
     
  8. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    Emotion has been beautifully defined and discussed in the movie, "What the Bleep Do We Know".
    Paraphrased (and poorly);
    the hypothalamus in the brain pumps out short chain proteins called peptides. There are different peptides corresponding to each and all emotional feelings. These peptides are pumped throughout the body and are absorbed into the cells by certain receptor sites, the same receptors as those that receive opiates and such. Certain receptor sites can only receive certain molecules; like opiates and peptides, lock and key. People become addicted to these certain peptides and their concurrent feelings. We constantly find ourselves in situations that cause the hypothalamus to start producing the needed shots of those particular peptides. What a rush! Riteous indignation! Anger! Pity! Love... If we cannot stop finding ourselves in these situations, if we cannot stop, we are addicted.

    Logic can not lead you to Truth. Logic is strictly a tool limited in function and range. Logic can build a better car. It can 'win' a logical debate. Logic (and lots of bullets) can win a war. Logic can initiate all sorts of technological advances. But its effective field of operation is limited to linear-spacio-temporal parameters. Please see my "What is Genius" thread for my definition of Genius. Below the last 'LIAR"! Hahahaha....

    Genius is access to 'truth/answers/knowledge' without the use of logic.

    Logic is not the access code for genius. That key don't fit this lock!
    Genius is 'access' to the entire database of existence forever.

    We never 'find' Truth; we become Truth.
    *__-
     
  9. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    The union of opposites? To go beyond logic?
     
  10. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    Can logic be the flimsy gate keeping the roiling blind wholistic demons of Madness at bay? How tiny and fragile that artificial space, that logical 'sanity', that small cone of shadow in which one hides (Psychosis is a fearsome demon!) on one side of that 'gate/wall'... but.. oh how 'limited'!
    Eventually, fearfully, one believes it to be the sum total of existence, under the table...
     
  11. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    logic is left brained... art is right brained... so why not get a pen and paper and do some doodling?

    -MT
     
  12. Spectrum Registered Senior Member

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    But even common art uses logic, such as depth perception etc. There are exceptions however, such as optical illusions:

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps the reverse of logic may be studied as follows: we say that something falls to the floor because of gravity, but anti-logic would dictate that it is because something falls to the floor that gravity exists. Oddly this may not be far from truth: it is because of movement from the Earth that we have gravity.
     
  13. Semon Howdy, hi and hello. Registered Senior Member

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    I think without logic, things is random. random is not logic I think.
     
  14. Azael Registered Senior Member

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    I believe that the concept of 'opposites' is no more real than Eddie the Flourescant Elk from the world of galloping bugbears. I explain the concept of opposites as a dualistic necessity to relativistic human thought patterns. We concieve of things as either "1" or "0", they either exist, or they do not.

    So you will have to be more explicit in what you mean when you say "the opposite of logic". Do you mean the opposite of a logical sequence, as in the reversal of a truth statement?
    eg. statement = P therefore Q
    opposite = Q therefore P

    Do you mean to imply that an 'opposite to logic' exists as a total absence of rational or deductive thought? And if so, do you believe it possible to experience this? Or do you believe that logic is a sort of 'chaos', and if this is so, doesn't chaos follow a pattern of its own?

    I subscribe to the idea of a 'cosmic logos' or universal logic. This idea doesn't really allow an 'opposite of logic' for me because I concieve of every thing as part of a deterministic and logical chain.
     
  15. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    Crude, but possibly workable.
    Perhaps 'access' is through right brain 'gate'. Doodling can certainly be a form of meditation/thoughtlessness. Perhaps one can 'doodle' the access code while the mind is out of the way and the appropriate 'query' has been 'launched'?
    Doodling your way to Genius!!
    Ingenius!
    *__-
     
  16. glaucon tending tangentially Moderator

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    Actually, this is incorrect. While this localization of 'skill sets' can be generally found to be true, it has been conclusively shown that sectioning of the corpus collosum can 'force' the hemispheres into sharing skill sets.

    Not that any of this has anything to do with the original thread beginning....

    Logic is a human creation, not something immanent or idealistic. It cannot therefore, 'have' an opposite.
     
  17. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't that illogical? If it is a human creation, as you suggest, then surely humans can create its opposite.
     
  18. iam Banned Banned

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    Logic misapplied can never equal truth. Logic is a tool. It is in application. Its not that logic cannot be used to discover all truth, it is just that our logic is limited. Can anyone logically deduce the emotion of love? Emotional intelligence can also be applied to discover other truths outside of a set path of logic but logic must give an explanation. But are we capable? Possibly only to a certain point. But knowing truth and being able to rationally or logically give an explanation is the challenge. It may be likened to deciphering a complex differential equation. The truth isn't logic, it just is. It may take a logical path to reach it or it could bump into you without any logic, thought or effort on your part. Then the logic would be to deduce this awareness. Simple awareness can mean sometimes truth could be staring you in the face. As an example, you can discover some truths just by the use of your five senses which requires no logic on anyone's part.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2006
  19. Rosnet Philomorpher Registered Senior Member

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    What the hell?

    Two negatives make a positive. So? That's logic allright.

    NOT (p AND q) = NOT(p) OR NOT (q)

    Logic isn't flawed. Your understanding of it is!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2006
  20. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    6,443
    Uh. I don't think there's anything "beyond" logic. It couldn't be proven to be beyond logic anyway, as it would take logic to do so.


    Logic is nothing without the premises it processes. The thing is that there are many many many premises, some of them proverbially seem "illogical". But a premise cannot be illogical; a premise is only in known contradiction or in known non-contradiction with some other premise.
     

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