Open note for Moderators

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Neverfly, Jun 1, 2012.

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  1. Neverfly Banned Banned

    My apologies. Over the course of time, my mind warped what you said. What you actually said was this:
    The over-all effect is the same, however. It was needless and unnecessary as well as it created conflict to have said that PRIOR to ever hearing the complaint.
    You should have heard the complaint FIRST and then spoken your mind about it.
    I'm sorry for changing "Spare us" to "save it." That's on me.
    This thread was started in regards to a complaint about Tiassa. You spent so much time avoiding the whole thing, you never found out that it could have probably been looked at swiftly. now, months later, it's stale and being confused with other issues. I don't care how many decades of experience you claim- You still mishandled it.
    Now Kittamaru asked pointed questions in a courteous and professional manner- Handled it well, I'd say- and I responded to that. What confusion goes in in your backroom that you never received that reply- I do not know. It's not on me. I followed that protocol and it got lost after I passed on the answer.
    Apologies. I never intended to make up anything.
    However, I did intend to show you how your response sounded. In reality, I'm fairly sure that you care about the forum for your own reasons, not for money. But then- you, too, can look at what you had said and see that it sounded as though you stated you won't put much effort in because you're not being paid to. It did come across that way- I think a moment of thoughtlessness on your part more than you actually saying that you don't care if you're not getting paid.
    JamesR- when I first asked you about this issue- did you assume that was going to be the outcome? Is that why you gave it the brush off- because of your assumption?
    You still have no idea what the complaint is or what it's about, do you?
    Tiassa offered to discuss it. I Pm'ed him yesterday but have had no reply yet. If you like, ask me to AGAIN spell it out and I'll do so in it's own concise post rather than mix it up with all this other crap. Let's get this settled first.
    Actually it is the first time.
    Prior to this, I've hashed it out in threads. This is the first time I've ever appealed to you.
    Don't confuse me with others and don't treat me as a constant complainer simply because you brushed it off assuming it was not a legitimate complaint without knowing what it was and assuming I've been complaining to you all the time- this was the first time, JamesR.
    You drew it out by avoiding it so long, it spawned many PM's and two threads total- But I'm pretty sure you still don't even know the complaint.

    Yes, the issue and what I want out of it CAN be explained in only a few sentences and I find my request to be reasonable.
    Now, after the hash up and all this going in circles, which I blame in part to your reticence to have even bothered to LOOK at it in the first place, it will probably seem very small or minor to you now. Although I take it VERY seriously.
    Nor have I gotten one from you.
    I apologize only if it's sincere. I don't just throw them around when people want them. While I can say I broke with decency in my venting rant, I do not care enough to make a sincere apology. I need to care first.
    Well, don't blame it on seagypsy. We've not discussed this topic or issue nor thread in quite a while. In fact, as you pointed out, there's life going on and that's what we discuss.
    I'm calmer because I chose to be.
    I will put thought into this and get back to it at some point. I agree- but there's something abut it I can't put my finger on at the moment- I'm juggling too many thoughts to be coherent and I need to be coherent on this one.

    I don't think either of us have those rights. I believe we both are more limited than that. I believe in free expression, as I'm sure you've noticed. But I also believe that if the rules LIMIT us to "Reasonably polite" expression - then we both are liable and should BOTH be HELD liable. I disagree with the double standard.
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  3. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Posting only because I have been mentioned by name.
    JamesR, trust me, I have very little if any affect on how Neverfly chooses to post or when. He doesn't consult with me before posting and rarely asks my opinion of what he posts. We kind of operate on unspoken terms in regards to the forum. I don't tell him how to feel or how to post and he doesn't tell me how to feel or how to post. We don't give opinions to each other, that we aren't asked for. And that goes beyond the forum. And is probably why we get along so well.
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Possibly it has to do with his intent vs the actual language used.
    I look at the written content first before being too concerned about the behind the scenes hubris. His post as written appeals to me however his intent is another thing.
    Differentiation between what is published and what is not is an important perceptional function needed. So much can be misread into what a poster implies with out proper regared to what is actually written.
    It is what is actually written that is of primary importance and keeping this always as a priority is essential if you wish to stay sane using a forum like this one.
    In other words drop the impressionism and deal with the written content as it is written is the sort of advice I could recommend.
    It is too easy to get too involved in what happens behind the scenes, so much so that you miss the show.
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  7. Neverfly Banned Banned

    The thing that bugs me about it is that with Balerion, for example, I just yell at him.

    But on every forum I've ever been on, the Mods were expected to Hold the Standard. To have a Moderator behaving badly was unthinkable. I don't have a thread about Wynn or Balerion, right? And this one isn't even about Bells.

    I see your point. It is ODD, though. Avoiding fights with a Mod by not acknowledging or ignoring said Mod. Dunno- if it was a Police Officer that I had to avoid or ignore, I think that wouldn't hold and in the end, someone would take the badge.
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    I think possibly you are over valuing the mods opinion. Sure they have the power of a mod but their opinions are similar value as any ones.

    To me a mods opinion is as important as every one elses no more no less. but I feel you may be thinking of them in a way that they can not possibly live up to...

    just two cents... and a penny
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Also I thought the recent post by JamesR needs a good look at and acknowledgment of the falibility and human condition he is alluding to.
    He has offered, free of charge I might add, over 8 years of "super mod" experience in his one post so there is an awful lot to it.
  10. Neverfly Banned Banned

    They manage it on every single forum I've ever been on with the exception of a gaming forum long ago. I've been on many. This is the only one where I've seen Mods act the way as they do here.
    Anecdotal, I know- but it's my own experience.
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

    There was nothing wrong with the language of my post. What I said was true: if he's aware that he's being baited, it's his responsibility to not bite. Whatever my intent is in this situation is irrelevant.

    What bugs Neverfly about my post is that he can't find any way to twist my words to mean something else. There's nothing to complain about, or throw back at me, which is what he's so intent on doing always with everyone who doesn't immediately capitulate to his thuggish behavior. I've phrased the point in a way that puts the onus on him without putting the blame on him, and he has no use for such advice because it doesn't absolve him or blame others.

    And the reason I wrote it was to help put an end to this nonsense. I've attempted this before with Neverfly, only to have him TYPE IN ALL CAPS CUZ THAT'S WHAT GROWN-UPS DO, but I'm not going to stop trying. He's not stupid, and could be a contributing member to this forum if he'd just stop acting like such a butt.
  12. Balerion Banned Banned

    I've been to several forums where mods behaved like absolute idiots. I was a moderator for over a decade at another forum and I know for a fact I acted like a dummy from time to time. It's kind of hard not to when you have posters who, well, do stuff like you're doing now. It's very hard not to just lay the smackdown on someone who won't cooperate. But Tiassa and James have now both been extremely cool with you, and friendlier than either have ever been to me, so I think you owe them the same.

    As for the police officer analogy, don't complicate matters. You can't ignore a cop, but you can ignore a forum moderator--as long as you aren't being moderated, of course. In regular conversation, if Bells replies to your post, pretend she didn't. Trust me, I know that's difficult, but I'm willing to bet she's not going to bother with you anyway. Just ignore her.
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Considering the complete and total dishonesty you poured into post number 208- I don't find the idea of you acting like a dummy hard to believe at all.
    I'll respond to one thing only on that Balerionica (and only because I'm in a particularly calm and chivalrous mood...);
    In saying this, I'm infracting upon the standard and I'm aware that I am. Let it be known.
    Dude- you're a butt. Most of the time. You can NEVER allow yourself to be wrong. Even when you are wrong, you'll fight tooth and nail to resist and try to make it look as though you are somehow right. You're extremely hypocritical. Such as now talking about how hard it is to not lay the smackdown on people like me doing what I am now. Dude- you do what I'm doing now all the freaking time, jughead.
    You're often crude and vulgar. A great deal of your personal attacks on others are inaccurate. You assume way too much. You speculate wildly and you're presumptuous.
    Now with those compliments out of the way...
    You're very intelligent and of quick wit. You can be very forgiving and fair. You make short work of some topics and you can be very insightful. You demonstrate empathy- even when you're being an asshole - you CARE enough to be an asshole.
    Now, I'm working on settling issues with Tiassa and JamesR. I'm not always diplomatic but I'm not entirely irrational (As long as I'm not all pissed off anyway.)
    That leaves you and Bells. Oh, right... Bells... I don't see that one getting resolved anytime soon.
    That leaves You.
    Here's my olive branch- it's conditional- take it or leave it...
    You wanna help me to learn how to be a Good Poster and stuff? Fine. Why don't you be honorable enough to accept you could do some learning as well. Broad speculative characterizations about a persons character when you don't really know them isn't the points of a good poster. Justifying doing so is a sign of delusion.
    I'll debate with you on topics. I'll treat you fairly and not attack your character or insult you as a person- if you extend the same courtesy to me. Don't tell me I'm a thug or a liar or a pinky suckling babe- just address My Points In a Debate. Do that and I'll do that for you.
    If not... Then piss off. I don't owe you my ears if you're going to be a hypocrite in your delivery.

    Oh, she will. If Bells feels strongly about a certain issue- she will bother with it. Not necessarily because it's me- but she WILL post her thoughts.
  14. Bells Staff Member

    Let me get this straight.

    I am not even speaking to you now, at all, and you still keep bringing me up. Why?

    At what point are you going to just leave me alone and move on already? You keep saying you want things resolved and even though I have stopped speaking to you, you just don't let up and keep bringing me up in just about all of your posts in this thread, save for one or two. Give it up already, for goodness sake! No, really, give it up. You have been offered a way out by James and Tiassa. Take them up on their offer and move on.

    1) I have a right to my opinion and my thoughts and I am allowed to post them, just as you are.
    2) Move on.
    3) Move on.. Yes, this is a recurring theme in this thread.
  15. Neverfly Banned Banned

    You don't get to count up individual posts- it's a conversation made up of MANY posts. You are part of the conversation. I don't blame you if you don't like being a part of it - us sitting here talking about you. I understand that. But counting the number of posts that mention you is silly- it's a whole conversation.
    I'm sorry, Bells. I really am. As I said above, being talked about is unpleasant. The topic, at this point, includes my complaint: Your habit of describing things in whatever favor suits you. Such as counting posts which was absurd- such as describing below as a "Way Out." Such as describing my saying that I don't pity a criminal caught in the act getting beat up as the far fetched "Death penalty inflicted" comment. See below for my thoughts on this.

    I have accepted what they offered which was a Discussion- Not a Way Out.
    You do not treat me as though I have that right- AT ALL. You hammered the hell at of me with completely far fetched descriptions including the death penalty comment in that last flame out.
    That is not respecting a persons right to an opinion, Bells, that's a character attack.
    Now yes, you can stop speaking to me or I can ignore you or... You could learn to attack the idea not the person.
    That too- a recurring theme- Attack the Post, not the Poster.
    That is my complaint. Those are my thoughts on the matter.
    Hey, I'm no angel and I probably screw that up at times, too. As above- I acknowledged being insulting to Balerion. But with you... man... It's like I get flooded with it very quickly.

    Said my piece and recognized how unpleasant it is to have people talk about you in a conversation you are not taking part in so- Leaving you alone now.
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

    See, this is what I'm talking about. I wasn't dishonest at all. You're acting like a troll. That's a fact, independent of whether or not you choose to acknowledge it. And no one's asking that you do acknowledge it. All anyone's asking is that you move on. Yet you insist on absolution. Nobody's going to give that to you, nor should they. The best you're going to get is a clean-slate, and that's been offered more than once, yet you've spit on it more than once.

    You're not fooling anyone (well, aside from Quantum Quack, apparently) with your absurd accusations. Just move on.

    No, you're in a mood to blame others and bitch about how bad you've been treated. It's boo-hoo time with Neverfly.

    You act as if that makes it okay. It doesn't.

    No, I do nothing like what you do. James and I have had a couple of run-ins, but it ends and I go back to posting. I don't demand anything from James, because I learned my lesson the first time my demands went unanswered. That's one of the many differences between us: Yeah, I'll speak up when something's wrong, but when there's no traction, I move on. Nor do I say any of the crap you've said, such as when you made vague threats against Bells. I don't go anywhere near that stuff. James wants to call me a whiner, fine, but you're far worse than that.

    Don't patronize me. I don't care what you think about me, and I don't need your approval. This isn't about me, in case you haven't noticed. It's about you acting like an adult and moving on. So far, no luck.

    You're not rational at all. Someone disagrees with you, they're a liar. Someone offers you an olive branch on the condition that you let it go, you "accept" it and then launch into four more posts about how shitty everyone is. You're obsessed with this issue. You even admitted to stewing over me during your absence. Do you realize how pathetic that is? Listen to me: I didn't remember who you were. Not saying you should have forgotten everyone here, but to hold on to that anger is frigging ridiculous. And you've even tried to paint yourself as a kind of freedom-fighter. I mean, how deep does this delusion run? Seriously, take a second and think about how stupid that sounds. Neverfly: Sciforums Freedom-Fighter


    I wouldn't blame Bells if she never wanted to speak to you ever again, some of the crap you've said to her. But because I know she isn't petty, she'd probably be cool with you if you'd just get over this childish crap.

    Dude, we settled when you left and I forgot you ever existed. I have no grudge with you. You're not important enough to me for such a thing. Understand? You don't matter to me.

    I never said I can't get better as a poster. I know I can. The difference between you and me is that I actually try. And I'm not making broad speculative characterizations about you. That's a flat-out lie. I'm reading your posts, and brushing up on your history, and I'm telling you and everyone else what I see. That your history doesn't jibe with the fantasy image you've created in your head isn't my problem. It's yours. And if you don't want to be called a thug or a liar, don't act like a thug or a liar. This thread, for example, is you acting like a thug and a liar. That's just the facts, Neverfly, not an insult. It's an observation. Feel free to take it personally, but for once in your time here at Sciforum, translate that anger into something productive, like, for example, an effort to prove that you can be more than a thug and a liar.

    Then ignore her.
  17. Neverfly Banned Banned

    I already addressed this: You assume way too much. Balerion- just because you invent a characterization to explain a perception doesn't make it anything more than an assumption. A vague one, at best. To put it forth as fact is not honest.
    I don't agree that that's the offer but if it was: I don't accept the crumbs from masters table and give thanks for the plentiful bounty- sorry. This reply is based on your response.
    However, both Tiassa and JamesR expressed themselves differently than how you described. I didn't read Tiassa's messages to me nor my reply to him to be how you described. Just to be clear.

    I don't need to fool anyone. I have made what I believe are valid points. Your hypocrisy throughout this long post belies your claim.
    You claim everything you disagree with is a lie. You calling out "liar" is like the boy who cried wolf.
    It's the first weapon in your arsenal.
    If you try to be a better poster- show it from this day forward or not.

    On moving on: I've actually been replying and responding to posters ideas and thoughts here. To make Balerion happy- was I supposed to tell them to F - off, I'm not gonna? For all this talk of moving on- You don't seem to be practicing it too well, yourself. In fact, some of those were replies to you and some of your posts were ignored when you persisted. You complain that I won't move on when you emphatically keep talking to me about it? Guess I'll just keep ignoring you, instead of who you tell me to ignore.

    In other words- if no one had posted their thoughts- I wouldn't have replied with my own thoughts. This thread would have just been sitting here with the last post back when. I'd already responded to Tiassa and JamesR and am simply waiting on that and was replying to the ideas expressed here in the meantime. You make it sound like a much bigger deal than it actually is- I haven't been posting new rants or posts that were not direct replies since then. I do not need to fool anyone- any objective reader can easily see this to be the case.
  18. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    I've been dropping by this thread daily, not that I have read every word, but I think I've got the general lay of the land.

    Psychology is an interest of mine.

    This thread has inspired me.

    To join another forum.

    The same amount of time per day, now divided by five instead of four. :wave:
  19. Balerion Banned Banned

    Proof positive. You're not going to change. You've got no interest in it, and you're nowhere near mature enough.
  20. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

    . :wave: thats a lot of juggling

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  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    yes Neverfly, you know how to resolve this issue but you choose to continue to promote it.
    I suggest strongly you check your motivation for continuing you campaign, as it is becoming blatantly transperant.
    It is apparent, no one but you can provide a resolution. So one wonders why you continue to seek a resolution from others when that is, by your own determination, imposssible?
  22. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Dude, seriously? You and Balerion together now- I've Been Only Responding To Your Posts.

    Stop acting like I'm in here Every Day Promoting something new. If you don't like it- Don't talk to me. But don't sit there and lie about what I'm doing. Follow your own and Jdawgs advice, QQ, move on. You sit there and talk to me about it (and you don't even know what you're talking about) and then whine that I reply to you. You gotta be kidding me. Fine- have it your way, I won't respond to QQ or Barlerion now.

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  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Is "iggy" the only way you can resolve this?
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