One of the biggest climate change threats -- Rain

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by wegs, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. wegs She knew how to fly all along... Valued Senior Member

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    5,359
    I haven't been hearing much about rain, in terms of how greatly it's contributing to climate change. But this article offers some keen insight into a potentially worsening problem.

    The last 12 months have been the wettest in U.S. history. Spring flooding drowned huge swaths of the Midwest this year, wrecking communities and essentially turning farms into inland seas. Floodwaters overwhelmed levees in the nation’s heartland, drenching towns and causing billions of dollars in infrastructure and crop damage. During May, a stormy pattern boosted the national monthly precipitation average to the second-highest level on record, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    Read on:
    https://grist.org/article/rain-hurricane-barry-flooding-climate-change/?
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, we have up here in the Great Lakes.

    Two years ago the lake levels rose so high there were salmon living in the baseball diamond on Centre Island.

    This year again, water levels are so high that most of the Sailing Clubs couldn't launch their boats - the clubs are under water.

    That's right, no sailing this year - on account of too much water.
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Or lack thereof....
    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/drought/
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    6,183
    lol
    ...........
    leave us not to forget
    grand solar minimum---increased cosmic rays---best to avoid going into deep space for awhile
    ................
    and
    don't believe everything you read
    ........................
    as re midwest-----wet autumn---colder than normal winter---deep freeze(many new records)(so cold, no peaches, no plums, no cherries here this year)----wet autumn, deep freeze and long winter = wet fields---not much of a problem when plowing with oxen, mules, or horses, but put a 60,000 pound tractor(an infant compared to big bud) in a wet field, and you have some serious soil compaction issues. And we have crop insurance = don't plant and get paid anyway. Those who had it, used it.
    And we did not have record rains nor flooding here in Iowa. (The high plains west of us, however loaded the missouri river which reclaimed its floodplain-----that floodplain was created long before we started keeping written records) on the bright side--- the spring rains of 2019 may help recharge the ogallala aquifer----which, if left to normal rainfall could take 6000 years to recharge------the trick is in helping nature recharge the aquifers when the rains are abundant (if we can pump water out, we can pump water in too----requires an holistic approach---(most likely beyond the intellectual capabilities of our elected representatives?))
    .....................
    avoid going into space until this grand solar minimum is over

    Now, it is obvious that Iowa does not accurately show the entire continent.
    That being said:
    Keep a good thought
    and a few sandbags handy
    ...........................
    flooding in siberia too
    maybe a help to reverse lake baikal's recent falling level?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,166
    One of the more secure predictions from the people tracking AGW is that the extra rain on land from heating the air and water will fall mostly - almost entirely - in localized torrential storms.

    That does not work well for recharging aquifers - too much runoff. And since in the US such floods and storms damage pipelines and various industrial complexes, what doesn't run off is often contaminated - what the recent US prairie floods did to the early stages of the controversial pipelines would in a sane country motivate a suspension of construction - it's only by the grace of lefties and environmentalists and the Tribes making trouble and delays that the Ogalalla aquifer is not currently being recharged with the finest Canadian tar sand crude.

    So AGW researchers predicted floods of rain, mud, etc, in some places, concurrent with extreme and persistent evapotranspirative deficits in others, both shifted in time and space from traditional expectations and established agricultural adaptations.

    Spot on. The alarmists were simply being accurate, apparently.

    The net and trend still displays the signature pattern of greenhouse warming, btw: persistent regimes of higher lows at night and in the cold seasons, more than higher 24 hour max temps. That's even making the news, finally, here and there for a few seconds of emergency warning.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    3,568
    WATER ... FREE WATER ... free water for everyone


    Americas
    Got
    Warming
    ?
    The Elitists spend soo much time ignoring the working class troubles they consider reality to be a field of projective online shopping.
    simply by saying they dont like something defines it as invalid
    i heard some fauxpews types were using this type of data to miss represent long term trends.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  10. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,362
    Horses in front, cart behind.
    The displacement of water - too much of it melting that should be solid; too much evaporating that should be liquid; too much being pumped to the surface that should be underground; too much being bottled and hauled away that should be in a lake; too much being chanelled off that should be in a river; too much being sequestered in shallow pools - and redistribution of water by altered winds and intensified storms are all effects of climate change.
    Secondarily, effects feed back into the system to accelerate climate change.
     
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  11. wegs She knew how to fly all along... Valued Senior Member

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    5,359
    I read another article discussing how global warming is causing this increase in rain fall. The thing to keep in mind though is that higher rain fall averages are due to heavy storm events, such as hurricanes. But, we're also seeing less rain and more droughts in certain areas of the US and the rest of the world, as well. Scientists believe that if we don't try to gain some control over carbon emissions, these weather trends/extremes will continue, hurting our environment.

    What do you think?
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    3,568
    "Control" of the emissions being created by people who control the emissions ?
    ...
    "Gun-Control" debate ... The debate designed to never produce a winner.

    Climate control control controls of controlling people controlling climate emissions control companys


    while people look to make profit from a never ending debate the rain will cost money and make good TV.

    who looses the money ? = insurance companys(USA co-pay write downs and limits costs the citizen)

    so insurance companys will most likely list rain events as acts of god and simply stop delivering the service they have been getting paid to deliver.

    will climate change denier leaders choose to ignore this like the other things insurance companys have done ?
    yes

    "weather created act's of god liquefaction of housing developments" ... etc ...

    how many housing developments have been built on inadequate storm water systems with no proper drainage and built in flood zones in and around loose soil & hill sides ?

    not such a big issue for gomer pyle because american housing development has been based around open flat ground instead of hill sides.

    that makes water run off, drainage and flood-way the issue.

    Rain already is the un-doing, however it is being covered up as "acts's of god" to a god-fear'n culture who are programmed to dismiss it out of hand.

    mention the word "weather" and 80% of people switch off their brains

    interesting thought...
    the average American house hold is built by Chinese made labor & products.
    the insurance cover of these products does not pay for Americans to make the products
    it pays for 3rd world Chinese poor people to make the replacement products at a Dollar per day etc...
    = false economy
     
  13. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,362
    It's rising faster and being blown around and dumped randomly: all the known weather patterns have been disrupted, and are in the process of breaking down altogether.
    It was never a question of control but of reduction. Scientists have been warning for over 150 years that we need to reduce the amount of crap we send up into our atmosphere. Instead, we have continued to increase our production of CO2, particulates and surface heat, at an accelerating rate.
    Government representatives get a taxpayer-funded junket in some posh air-conditioned hotel and get together every few years to lie to one another and the tv cameras about what their country is going to do, by when, to improve things. Then they go home and support industries that produce more crud, because - "But, the eee-cooo-nooo-meee!!!"
    They won't just continue: they will do what we have been doing: increase at an accelerated rate.
    Too bad it's not just "our" environment, because that thing is terminally damaged already.

    FWIW That's what I think.
     
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  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    20,381
    There is something rather straightforward worth stating.
    The weather will certainly demonstrate what it will demonstrate, whether there are denialsts in the house or not.
    A poem I composed for my grandchildren's mother:

    How do I tell them
    When their eyes shine so future bright.
    How do I let them know?
    That adulthood is only a may or might.

    How do we tell them?
    That we let them down
    That in the rains that are coming
    They may well drown.

    What can we do?
    They may well ask.
    Silence and tears,
    Hidden behind a smile, a mask.

    So how do we tell them?
    I hear you ask.
    We can't, with out breaking our hearts,
    And leave it to nature, the terrible task.


    May 2019
     
  15. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    4,470
    If rain patterns change, it is obvious that some regions will gain more, some less. If there will be more rain in the average, this is good, last but not least there are big regions which are unusable for agriculture because there is not enough rain, while there are none which are unusable because of too much rain. Then, once the temperature is higher, weather events will be heavier. But this is not a very big problem. Some buildings have to be build in a more stable way, which would be useful anyway.

    The environment itself has no problem with a changing climate. It has survived climate changes in the past too.
     
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  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    "In just a few years every climate record will have toppled and the only record left standing for eternity will be the number of people denying that the records have been toppled." me 2019
     
  17. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    I have never cared about particular records.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    6,183
    I think that I remember a recent(12 years ago?) southeastern drought which led to two states suing each other over control of a reservoir which lay on their borders.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    20,381
    Obviously.....

    It's not just breaking climate records all round the globe. It's breaking them every year with a certain consistancy that for most rational people is rather concerning.
    Btw I hear Siberia is burning....
     
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,381

    On the current heat wave in Europe ( 2nd this year):

    World Meteorological Organisation spokesperson Clare Nullis described temperatures in Europe during the past week's heatwave as "absolutely incredible."

    "What's significant is that normally when you get a temperature record broken it's by a fraction of a degree," she said.

    "What we saw yesterday was records being broken by two, three, four degrees."

    src: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-27/europe-hit-by-heatwave-and-hailstorms/11352766
     
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  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    3,568
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,166
    That is of course quite stupid and completely false. There are plenty of regions too wet for agriculture, there are plenty of circumstances - including the most likely, according to researchers - in which more rain on average will be bad and harmful to agriculture, and so forth.
    It will destroy the ability of several densely populated regions to support human civilization as we know it. Somewhere between a half billion and a billion people will be forced to move or die, and there will be no unpopulated regions capable of supporting them or their obsolete methods of agricultural production.
    That will probably be impossible - the sewer systems alone will be out of reach economically.

    Define "big".
    All prior global or continental climate changes experienced at this rate and scale (meteor strikes, essentially) have destroyed the existing ecosystems affected - mass extinctions, severe turnover at every taxonomic level, recovery only by colonization and/or evolution over a time scale of millions of years.
    You have never bothered to inform yourself about physical reality of any kind.
     
  23. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    4,470
    There are, of course, some swamps left on Earth. But this is nothing compared to the deserts. Moreover, the technologies to transform swampland into land for agriculture are well-known.

    More rain on average may be bad only for a particular culture which is optimal for the actual climate, but this is part of the usual fearmongering scheme: The negative consequences presented are those which could happen only if people would not do anything, for example switching to different crops.
    And this is simply fearmongering. Those using obsolete methods of agricultural production will be forced out of the market by simple working capitalism. They will do the same what all those people have done in the past, move into the cities. Will there be places to emigrate for those who nonetheless want to continue to do agriculture? Quite probable. There are, for example, the Bures in South Africa, which are living now in very dangerous conditions, many of them being murdered, all of them living with the danger of confiscation of all their property. It looks like Russia invites them, and at least some of them will use this offer.
    LOL. Technologies known already for centuries are out of reach economically.
    The time scale is certainly not that of a meteor strike. Humanity has its own time scale for what is important, crops can be changed every year, infrastructure will be anyway rebuilt every 50-100 years, and what people are doing to gain income actually changes much faster. To become dangerous, the climate would have to change faster than this.
     

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