On Nothing in a void.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    what you know that you once did not know is nothing.
    what is nothing that you do not know is something
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Wiki tried.....

    Tao or Dao (/daʊ/, DOW; fromChinese: ; pinyin: Dào, [tâu] (

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    listen)) is a Chinese word signifying 'way', 'path', 'route', 'road', 'choose', 'key' or sometimes more loosely 'doctrine', 'principle' or 'holistic science' [1] . Within the context of traditional Chinese philosophy and religion, the Tao is the intuitive knowing of "life" that cannot be grasped full-heartedly as just a concept but is known nonetheless through actual living experience of one's everyday being.

    I did that already.☺

    Alex
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with all that you have said except the first and the second sentence.
    Alex
     
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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i've learned through this universe that nothing and non-existence is better than something because that something could be hideous/repulsive.
     
  9. danshawen Valued Senior Member

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    What version of "nothing" is it that gives away its scale, for an uncertainty principle to operate?

    How large or how small is "nothing", if there really is "nothing" to compare it to, and "nothing" also to observe a comparison?

    Even if you eliminate all the photons and neutrinos, the energy a passing gravity wave may go unnoticed without "something" to be affected by it.
     
  10. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    If you want qualify "nothing" as being better than "something", it must be because it has that special something.

     
  11. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    Within the boundaries of our Universe there is no size region which could be said to contain nothing

    Outside of the boundaries my gut feeling is that there would be a Total Absolute Void and for me that would be a space where nothing existed unto infinity until our Universe intruded into a portion

    If a Infinite Total Absolute Void with our Universe expanding into it exist would that impress you as being nothing?

    Or consider mentally extracting our Universe leaving nothing behind inside the Total Absolute Void which extends to infinity?

    In imagination that for me would be a nothing

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  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I like your perspective, and propose that such a condition would also be timeless.
    But can a void be both infinitely large and infinitely small?
    What about a singularity with perhaps infinite potential appearing in such a condition?

    Hehe, a thought came to mind: can a total void still have areas of density?

    I can imagine a form of an instant collapse of a portion of the timeless void and that this collapse was causal to a singularity with near infinite energetic potential which, rebounding from the collapse, generated a mega-quantum event, releasing the compressed energy as our BB........and then there was something....

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    that's one of the dumbest conjecture i've ever read. if that's your gut feeling, those guts are naive. what makes you think that this would be the only universe and everything else is a void unto infinity? where would this universe and it's properties originate from? it's not even remotely logical or even rational.

    we can only see a small portion of this universe and you propose that everything else is a void, except this universe? and you laugh at woo?

    you are pulling everyone's leg, right?

    this is also more wooy than ghosts, alien abductions etc.

    right. so a singularity compressed and then exploded to just create this one universe from an infinite void and there is nothing else out there ( at all ) except just infinite void and, of course, this universe with it's obviously relative (meaning it's finite) universal laws.

    hubris? center of everything ideal?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  14. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    Agree timeless for two reasons
    1/ TIME do not exist even in this Universe
    2/ What is commonly referred to as time is a abstract measurement of change occuring on a physical object. Since no objects in a Total Infinite Void - no time

    Using a arbitrary measurement system I would contend only large because I am thinking INFINITE unmeasurable (which does not make it small however)

    Well from the Science I read about it seems it is impossible for a Total Infinite Void to exist hence yes it would be possible for singularity to appear BUT since Scientists say a Total Infinite Void cannot exist it would be their job to name the the state which would allow this

    I would say no

    Praise to your imagination BUT again my thoughts of a Total Infinite Void would not allow such a situation
    Since there is stuff it is self evident Total Infinite Void is automatically ruled out

    And so we are left with - WHERE HAS ALL THIS STUFF COME FROM?

    Strangely it is the same question atheist ask of theist with the minor difference being when Science say stuff has always existed and theist say god has always existed theist give the stuff sentience and personality along with the ability to create more stuff with sentience

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  15. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    What makes you think there are other universes?

    Obviously possible but not a given

    Are you saying this Universe obtained its properties from other Universes?

    From a cut and paste from a reply post to Write4U
    Since there is stuff it is self evident Total Infinite Void is automatically ruled out

    And so we are left with - WHERE HAS ALL THIS STUFF COME FROM?

    Strangely it is the same question atheist ask of theist with the minor difference being when Science say stuff has always existed and theist say god has always existed theist give the stuff sentience and personality along with the ability to create more stuff with sentience

    Ok - you have a view OK

    I would agree we can only detect a portion of this Universe and we cannot see any other Universes so it would be speculation that
    1. We are a single Universe in a otherwise Total Infinite Void or
    2. There are other Universes - we are not alone (single) Universe
    Without evidence I speculate 1. Feel free to speculate 1or 2 or propose others

    YES l laugh at Woo Woo

    For me SPECULATION

    And again

    so a singularity compressed and then exploded to just create this one universe from an infinite void

    a Total Infinite Void has been ruled out by Science so it is up to Science to give a label to what existed before the Big Bang

    If you have evidence to the contrary and know there is more Universes out there feel free to share

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  16. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    No thing. An absence defined by an expectation.
    There's also context. "Nothing in an empty box."
    A limit to the expectation in terms of volume.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Does it need to be 'stuff'?
    Assuming that a limited (bounded) void must have geometrical fractal properties but still is totally permittive of any potential to become expressed as a value or as
    patterns , even as "stuff".

    Why not Potential energy (BOHM) ? An as yet "enfolded potential" in a finite Wholeness (a geometry), and unfolding in a orderly hierarchy of becoming "expressed in our reality", by a form of fractal mathematical imperatives which we are able to translate in mathematical terms as values and patterns which are all around us in a near infinite variety of expressions. Humans are a great example of the near infinite potentials becoming expressed in reality.

    This why I question the assumption that expressed potentials of "stuff" was a necessary precondition to the BB.
    IMO, the BB ceated the stuff, wich have values and often self-form patterns, from nebulae to humans.
    https://www.universetoday.com/61103/what-is-a-nebula/

    Does the potential for life not already begin to form inside a nebula?

    CDT (Loll) is a serious contender for explaining how the fabric of space itself "unfolds" in a fractal dynamical form, spacetime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  18. NotEinstein Valued Senior Member

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    1,272
    It does not; for example, this limited (bounded) void could be spherical.

    (Mathematical) values cannot be (or become) physical; what do you mean by "expressed as a value"?

    A potential typically doesn't express itself as a pattern. Also, since a potential is physical (or at least an expression of something physical) and can store energy, there are no (non-zero/non-constant?) potentials in a void.
     
  19. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    The STUFF I am implying - yes it needs/has to be stuff

    Note - I did not imply it came "from stuff"

    The stuff is the stuff of the Universe and apart from the solid stuff would include the detectable stuff such as gravity and magmatism (not normally classed as stuff more as properties of stuff)

    I preempt objections about "what about.....?" by lumping them in together with the objects of which they are properties

    Why not indeed? And here we go down the rabbit hole

    Do where did the potential energy come from?

    Cut and paste coming up (with some changes)

    Strangely the same question atheist ask of theist - who made god? theist can ask Scientists where did your potential energy come from?
    The minor difference being when Science say stuff (or potential energy) has always existed, theist say god has always existed
    However theist give their stuff (god) sentience and personality along with the ability to create more stuff with sentience
    Scientists just stick with stuff

    As I have mentioned Scientists have yet to give a definition of conditions prior to the Big Bang

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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Still a fractal.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
    The color white, to name one. It is made up from a ratio of three distinct other colors ( refractive values).
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    6,563
    Geometry. Vectors, tensors within the Wholeness.. Remember the universal functions are dynamical processing of values which are mathematically compatible and those which are not...already a form of natural seletion. It took some 14 billion years for this process to produce a a result in the human form, among countless other resulys or tendencies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  22. NotEinstein Valued Senior Member

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    1,272
    You really need to stop lying about what a fractal is. A sphere is not a fractal; this has been explained to you numerous times, and yet you continue to willfully spread this misinformation. You are extremely intellectually dishonest; please stop.

    Please give me a bucket full of "the color white", as you are suggesting that colors are physical. Additionally, a color is not a mathematical value, so your argument is irrelevant anyway.
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    6,563
    Ever looked a a Mandelgrot fratal. It has a perfectly circular interior, which I find remarkable.
    Snow.for one. But I was not suggesting that all expressions of color are the same. Here you are talking about additive colors, not the colors of white in the EM frequencies variety. All you need is a triangular crystal to separate the colors and assign values to them. Hz.

    Its what gives diamonds their decorative values.

    Hameroff, Tegmark, and LIvio believe we see shades of all colos as a wave function consisting of ratios between three fundamental frequencies. The rainbow is but one example.
    I would surely call that a pattern.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018

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