Nurses Paid Better Than Doctors In The USA

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You want to know why people think doctors are arrogant? Because they are (as a group). The government (the employer) told the Training schools that they needed more of certain specialties, the doctors told the government they had no interest in Training them because it would mean losing a bargaining position, at that point they were about one word away from the government removing the ability to train at the colleges and giving it to the universities.

The intergenerational health review stated that the safest, the most cost effective and the quickest way to fill staff shortages in the health system was job subsitution. Ie physios, psycologists ect wouldn't become front line health proffessionals without requiring a doctor to tell them that yes this pt needs treatment. Paramedics would start running emergency rooms and doctors would work further back in the hospitals and yes nurse practicioners would act insted of GPs, guess who didn't like this and it had nothing to do with pt safety.

Then there was the medical certificate debarcle. The government wanted to allow pharmacists, psycologists and physios to give certificates because people were having yo wait days and it was costing the government a.fortune to have people with a cold see a GP just so they could get a day off work. The AMA didn't like that either because it would cut into the profits of GPs.

The only thing the AMA cares about is profits, not pts. If doctors had there way the " doctor as God" would be back and pt centered health care would be a myth

Its your own fault your seen as arrogent, you have fought the government, the pts and the other health care proffessionals ever step of the way, hell the AMA kicked up the biggest stink when nurses, paramedics and physios got stethoscopes

 

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To be fair bruindoc80 isn't to blame for the sad state of medical affairs. I personally lay that at the feet of babyboomers

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Part of the problem is everyone wants someone to blame (and sue) and everyone is so worried about taking one iota of responsibility for themselves and no one is willing to shoulder the responsibility in that way MDs are - of course they all cover one another's arses, so much so one could make the case its all one big circle jerk. So, that's half the problem. It's a social problem not restricted to medicine either. I'm not sure where it came from? Babyboomers?

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Maybe Lawyers?

Oh, and bruindoc80, it took all of about 30 seconds of "research" to see that the graph you posted doesn't support your position. 10 more seconds to see it wasn't published - not that this would matter, it doesn't support your position

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Lastly, I put in 80 hours a week some times during the year. I worked for crap wages while I was a post doctoral researcher. I also spent my Xmass vacation tutoring underprivileged inner city students so they could become MDs one day - which they did. Unpaid mind you. Lots of people work hard and lend a helping hand out of kindness. It's human.

Meaningful information. Yes, that's an interesting question. What is meaningful information? Well, half of the crap in physiology texts is either wrong or misleading - all of it is at least a decade out of date. I like to think critical thought is itself inherently meaningful.

 

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Sorry, the AMA (formerly the BMA) IS to blame for the majority of problems in the Australian healthcare system. Firstly the case BMA and the Commonwealth of Australia which stopped Australia from having a British style NHS right through stopping the numbers of Med students that are required by the employer (the government) and then blocking the implication of the intergenerational health review. All of these were about money and control and none of them had anything to do with suing doctors.

 

Asguard, I don't mean to be rude, but this generalizing is really immature. I don't remember any sort of debate when nurses "got stethoscopes." We've had them since I began practicing, as did my instructors of which some are quite old. Without automatic cuffs, you need a stethoscope to get a blood pressure. Where did you hear all this? If you're talking about as far back as fifty years ago, well, then a lot more has changed too.

 

I do admit some of these go back some don't, the intergenerational health review was only about 5 years ago and it had widespread surport from the nursing federation, from.allied health groups, from pt advocacy groups, from achidemia and from government. However it was going to break up the power of doctors and the AMA wasn't having a bar of it

 

Medicine is the one and only profession that is capped by the government and the Universities can do nothing about it. It's not too bad in AU. Take the city of Sydney for example. There's 3+ medical schools in that one city alone. In the USA you'll find 3 med schools for an entire state.

I read there's going to be a 'glut' of MDs in 15 years time and once the babyboomers 'move on' then there's be a huge bubble of MDs. This will be an interesting time for medicine. I'm curious to see what happens.

Lastly, I think the Universities like having only a few Ss go on to do medicine. It means we can take hundreds of thousands of Ss into BS degrees every year hoping to get in. Without those Ss, how would the University maintain their balance sheet? IOWs, if you let in too many at once, it will cause a bubble and the market will crash. Better to maintain the illusion that 99% of the Ss just weren't good enough to get into Med School and kick the can down the road.

I have to say, its really really sad when I see very competent Ss miss their chance at Medicine while very rich morons use their family's wealth to secure a place (Yes, this happens they pay full fees and are selected by "interview" to be competent). It's heartbreaking. Then there's the luck complete moron that, the Gods only know, somehow got into Med School. I'm talking complete moron. We only hope to the Gods these jackoffs are routed out during internship and or residence. Which, about 15% are so, at least there's that check.

OK one more point, yes, there are some very dedicated and good hearted medical professionals working very hard to do their very best for their patients. And some of these have very high IQs

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Michael we are talking about different things, the university places are fine, but the medical colleges arn't producing enough of the speculists that the employers (ie state governments) need. That's because they are controled not by independent universities or by employers but rather by the doctors they have already trained and its in there best interests to keep the numbers down to lower compition for jobs. You oviously weren't living here when the AMA, the medical colleges and federal government had a VERY public argument cuminating in a threat that if they didn't produce the numbers demanded by government (remember its the government who funds that training) then it would be removed from them and given to they universities who are independent and WILL provide what the states need, not what the doctors want to keep up there bargaining position

 

BTW full fee paying places at Uni for Australian and NZ citizens And residents are gone. All places are now what was formally know as HECS places