Not enough women in china?!

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by miss khan, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. if you're really in love with just her(heart goes pitter-patter, sighs), too bad, sorry

    but if you want to marry a chinese woman, or date chinese women, then you're in luck mate

    if you're adventurous, here's a start

    mail order brides

    teach english in china

    chinese forums

    not your cup of tea, then google what is

    P.S. learn more about the culture or go visit, should help with her family
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  3. Bells Staff Member

    Whoa this is an old thread..

    Contrary to what you may believe anthony, I would never support the wholesale slaughter of unborn foetuses and infantacide because they were of the wrong sex. I personally find the whole notion to be sickening and frankly backwards and primitive.

    And the Chinese have caught up anthony. Women do have abortions because their babies aren't male in China and in other countries. There are also reports of the Chinese authorities forcing women to abort because they have broken the law and had more than one child, some are forced into late term (or full term) abortions. I cannot imagine anything worse, can you?
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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Indeed, I can't.

    But, if abortion is not murder. If abortion is simply a matter of a woman controlling her body. Why shouldn't she be allowed to kill all female babys? Or all left handed fetuses? Or all fetuses with an IQ below a certain number? Perhaps all fetuses with brown eyes? On what basis can you object to these things while supporting "abortion on demand"?

    Notice I slipped into calling them fetuses when speaking of their wholesale slaughter. A trick of the mind that makes the whole thing seem less vile.
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  7. Bells Staff Member

    I view it differently. Hypocritical? Yes most probably. I support a woman's right to choose, but I'd withdraw that support if the woman was choosing to give birth to only one particular sex because her culture dictates that that sex is preferred.

    Do I think aborting female foetuses because of their sex as a wholesale slaughter? Yes I do, when this is combined with the level of infanticide as well. I'd view the same with any culture who is willing to destroy any foetus because it's sex is not culturally appealing or seen as worthy. Girls in China are lucky if they are aborted, because if they are allowed to go full term, they can be either murdered upon birth by way of drowning, suffocation, etc or they are dumped into homes where they are abused and mistreated in ways that actually makes me sick. However it does not make aborting a foetus due to her sex any better or acceptable.

    Do I think those girls should be aborted because they are unwanted due to their sex? No I do not. I think parents who decide to have a child should accept their child regardless of their sex and value and love that child no matter what. I will never support or agree with any society where one sex is ignored, killed or aborted indiscriminantly because of their sex. Lets not forget, couples in China decide to have a child and then some who find out that they are having a girl then decide to destroy that foetus because it happens to be a girl or murder it when it is born. We aren't talking of people who never planned to have children or did not want children at all. We are talking of people who wanted to have a child but demand that child be male, so will get rid of or kill any child that does not fit that criteria. I personally find the whole idea to be sickening.
  8. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    You said it. Abortion due to gender is wrong. But abortion due to mood is fine? A woman has the absolute right to control her body, but not if she only wants to bear male children?

    What about eye color, height, obeisity, diabetes, myopia, mental illness, etc. Over time we will probably be able to detect there conditions as well as the sex of the baby. Is it OK to abort a fetus with any trait you do not desire?

    If not, why not. It's her body!!!!!! Why should she be forced to carry a female baby she does not want?
  9. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Thats just racist. ALL men like females. You don't "own" females so I don't know what you mean by "our", and I don't think females like to be treated that way either.

    Also what makes you thnik Asian men will want American females? American females divorce a LOT, and are among the least loyal. You are correct, there will be a shortage of females, but that will harm us Americans more than it will harm people in China, and you assume they will come here, but I'm more worried about war. I worry that there could be a spike in aggression. It depends on what these males decide to do with their aggression, but if history serves as a guide, it's usually very very bad for diplomacy when there are way more males than females, it's bad because usually, culturally, and this is global not just in China, when the males want something, a lot of the time males think it's acceptable to use aggression to take it. Also, a lot of gangs and other problems seem to occur when the males are grouped up with each other.

    In America, do you feel comfortable approach a group of young males? Likely not, even if you are a male, you arent going to want to approach a group of males, why? Because males are known for being aggressive, violent, gangsters, criminals and all that.

    Women do the same sorta stuff, but males just have the threatening look simply because, most of the time groups of males do not get along.

    I'll show you

    This is something that can be a security problem. It will mainly be a security problem for China at first, but there is no guarentee that it will stay in China.

    There is also no guarentee that all these excess young males will resort to violence, I'm sure some of them won't, but anytime young men grow up and group up, bad things seem to follow. I'm sure most of us males can base this on our experiences, have we ever seen a group of young men hanging together who werent getting into some sorta trouble? Now imagine a population the size of China, and imagine where it could lead. I think the best situation would be if, in China women had a larger role in society, and then maybe it will be a happy ending, but if the trend continues and it stays male dominated, and theres more males, I don't see how it could be good for anyone, not good for China, not good for America, or for global security..

    What could happen is that men from China could search elsewhere for bribes, there are plenty of women all over the third world, and if China is willing to open up it's borders this could be good. Don't automatically assume that American women are going to be rushing to go to China, but there will be plenty of women around the world who would just as soon go to China as go to America.
  10. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

    know what, as wrong as it is, you have a good point madanthonywayne. I think abandoning girls to die is a good deal worse than getting them aborted at an early stage. If we can solve the earlier, lets, then let's work on solving the ethics of abortion.
  11. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Don't worry, it's going to come here too. People will abort based on skin color here, so we Americans are no better. In the near future we will have the ability to select a gender and race, and all the abortioning will be ended, at least this sort.

    Maybe instead of telling people how bad they are, you should just tel them about the technology that lets people select. Maybe women have it extremely bad in China, do you know what it's like to be a woman in China?

    Would you be against it if black babies were aborted because of their skin color?
  12. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Does this mean we should abort the disabled? Afterall they will have a life of oppression, what about all the minorities? Abort them? I mean all minorities have a life of oppression. Would society really be better if it were filled with white males?

    I think, while I don't like the practice of abortion, I do think parents should be able to select the genes o f their children. If parents decide to remove a certain gene or shut it off, or have only a certain gender, they should have that choice. They should be able to select the race AND the gender of their children, and if parents want to have all blonde white male children, they should have that option.
  13. s0meguy Worship me or suffer eternally Valued Senior Member

    Women are useless, I can't blame them

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    . Also, Chinese men will prolly go to other countries to satisfy their need for women.
  14. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    What are men useful for? starting wars?

    Ideally, men and women must be useful, or humans arent.
  15. draqon Banned Banned

    I am sorry to say this, but Chinese women are not exactly the beauties to strive for the life for. In fact...they rank the lowest in attraction amongst all women of Earth in my view.
  16. Bells Staff Member

    You tell me.

    I do not believe in selective breeding. You either have a child or you do not. I don't believe in picking or choosing what you have when you decide to have it. It is hypocritical, but that's what I believe.

    Women in China don't just "want" to have boys. Society expects them to. Their husbands and families expect them to. Male babies are valued more than female babies. They are treated differently and viewed differently.

    I've said before, if you decide to have a child, you have a child. One should not pick or choose the traits or sex of a child as one would buying a pair of shoes for example.


    How comforting for you.

    Oh and I am concerned.

    Boys are preferred in China because of the cultural belief they will be able to stay with their parents after marriage and care for them, while girls are not preferred because when they marry they are seen to be the ones to move away to live with their husbands and their inlaws. For example, a Chinese couple with a farm will prefer to have a boy due to the notion the boy will stay with them and help them tend the land and the parents needs when they grow old and the land will stay in the family, but if they have a girl, the girl will move to tend to her husband's land.

    And people know the technology exists. It's not just in China but in other countries and cultures as well.

    You feel the need to ask? As a person of colour and a parent, you're damn straight I am against aborting a child because it might be black. I am not a racist hell bent on creating an 'uber' white race to rule the world. I do not judge others or consider an individual to be somehow worthless or somehow less human because they are not white.

    If society were filled with white males, then you'd be in trouble.

    Why am I somehow not surprised by this statement from you?

    Isn't this what Hitler wanted for his Germany? I don't believe in the practice of eugenics.

    And a society filled with blonde white males through the practice of selective breeding? Sounds like a horror movie...
  17. swivel Sci-Fi Author Valued Senior Member

    Yes, but that's only because feminists have been fighting for 30 years to bring about more equality in this area.
  18. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member


    I agree with selective breeding. I can agree to disagree with you. Why on earth would you want to birth a child into misery and oppression if you have the option not to? Racism is never going to end, it's going to progressively get worse and worse. If you could choose the race of your baby, why would you choose to have your baby be a minority? This is equal to two gay parents choosing to have their baby be gay, why would they do it?

    I think humans should all pick a standard race, because people hate diversity and it does not matter what a minority like yourself says. It's not going to change the fact, that the worth of your life is based on the color of your skin, so if you can choose the worth of your babies life it makes perfect sense to make them worth as much as possible.

    It also makes sense to make them straight, highly intelligent, and male, unless you are in America, then you can make them female. Do you see my point?

    I'm a trans-humanist, I don't care what our species ends up looking like, as long as the species has a better chance of survival. If the species decides that brown skin is a disability, then parents should have the ability to choose white skin. If society defines blonde aryan to be the highest caste, parents should have the ability to choose based on what they can afford.

    Why would you not want to have control over the race and genes of your baby? You want to give birth to a downsyndrome baby? you want to give birth to a baby that will be hated by the world because of it's appearance?you want to give birth to a diseased baby?

    Thats a bit odd. You should back up your opinions with some reasons for why you are against gene selection and selective breeding because I'm all for it, I think we need to be as selective as possible, not for the benefit of any race, but for the benefit of the species. I think you can see at this point I don't care which race controls the world, because I don't care about the concept of race. I only care about the species itself, whatever race wins, should become the default race, and people should then choose to give birth to babies in the default race, because it's rational.

    The problem with Hitler was not simply that he wanted a world of white babies. It was HOW he went about doing it. He decided to brutally murder millions of people. this did not help whatever his goal was. The holocaust was bad, not because of what Hitler wanted, but because he let his hatred guide him.

    Let's see, if people could select their race, the result could still be the same, no one would be killed, no one would be harmed, it would be painless. What's wrong with this?

    I'm not for the holocaust, but I am for selective breeding, I think people should try to have the most intelligent babies possible. I think people should try to have babies that won't be oppressed. I don't really think that an aryan world would look better or more interesting, but I'm also not motivated to control how the human species looks, I don't care about the aesthetics of our species. I like women of all the races so far, I have not met a race that I did not think at least one woman was attractive. From my perspective, it makes no difference which one becomes standard, and while I like diversity, and variety, I also realize the majority of the world hates diversity and variety, so ultimately, it's going to be that we either choose a race, or billions will die.

    Which do you prefer?
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2006
  19. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Why so racist?

    Chinese women are as beautiful as all the others. Unless you just don't like women, but thats your problem.
  20. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

    That's no more racist than saying that Chinese women tend to live in China.
  21. Bells Staff Member

    Hmm maybe instead of attempting to breed the perfect human as though we were breeding cattle, we could simply attempt to change society to be more accepting of those who weren't blonde, white and male.. hmm?.. Oh wait, considering that blonde, white males aren't exactly in the majority, I seem to doubt it is somehow the "preferred" race. My son is olive skinned with light brown/dark blonde hair and green eyes. He is literally a mix of my husband and myself in colouring and features. He does not fit your criteria of "the perfect species", yet he is neither oppressed by society, nor is he suffering any misery caused by society. But then again I guess it's just the company he keeps. Company that does not care he is not white and blonde.

    Judging by the number of different races that exist, how can you say any child is somehow in a minority while attempting to give the 'uber' race of aryan babies as being somehow superior? As I said before, look around any city and I can bet you anything that blonde, white males are not somehow in the majority in the world.

    Oh and two gay parents cannot have children considering both would be of the same sex. An external entity would have to be involved.

    Why should there be a standard race where everyone is exactly the same? You should start a post asking everyone if it would be ideal that everyone be born blonde, male and white, with only a few females thrown in to allow for continued selective breeding. I am sure if you rustled up enough of your racist little buddies you'd get enough support. Too bad for you that what you think and hope for will not happen because the majority do not think as you do. Oh and minorities like myself, as much as you may hate us, do matter and do have a voice. Pisses you off doesn't it?

    You see, I am glad to be a "minority" because it pisses people like you off. Brings a smile to my face just thinking about it.

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    Worthless how? How exactly do you value or place worth on a child?

    Colour of skin, hair, eyes, sex? My how shallow you are. You should move to China!

    No I do not. Frankly I find your point to be distasteful, insulting and vile. But I'm sure you get that a lot.

    You don't care what it looks like, but you keep coming back to the blonde and white aspect. Ya, you're not a racist at all. It's just your hope that all will one day be blonde, blue eyed and aryan. How perfectly.. boring..

    Why would the species decide that brown skin is somehow a disablity? Considering that everyone has brown skin of different shades, I'd hardly think we'd all brand ourselves somehow disabled and attempt to breed ourselves out of extinction through 'selective breeding'. White skin, as such, does not exist in the purest form of white. It is beige, more than anything and beige being a light version of brown.. you get my drift?

    Oh and if you consider 'white skin' to be superior, you'd best attempt to make white people immune to skin cancer as the lack of melanine in your skin makes you less 'superior' when compared to a brown skinned individual.

    Why would I want too? Considering I am a human being as is my husband, it's a sure bet our children will be part of the human race. That's pretty much all we care about. As to their genes, well they're half mine and half my husband's.

    You are judging the world based on your own warped view of it. If you desire all children to be of aryan caste, it does not mean that the rest of human kind desires the same thing. Why would society somehow hate my children because of their appearance? Does the fact he has olive skin, dark blonde hair and green eyes somehow make him inferior? In your world maybe, in my world no. Hell we don't care what colour he is. He's healthy and happy and that's all that matters to us. If the child I am currently expecting turns out to suffer from down syndrome then it suffers from it and will be loved and adored regardless. I'd rather have a down syndrome child than have a child who grew up to think that people should attempt to only breed blonde, white male children of aryan caste. But that's just me.

    You still have failed to give a reason as to why a certain "race" will somehow benefit the species more than any other. So far all you've been able to argue is that white, blonde and male children of aryan class should somehow be seen to be superior.

    Right.. again, so why do you keep saying that white, blonde males of aryan class though? After all, if it can be any race, why do you propose that brown skin is somehow a disability and not other colours? After all, as I pointed out to you, 'white skin' has the disablity of not having the melanine to cope with the amount of sunlight it receives, resulting in early deaths of many people. Don't say you don't care because you do care. So much so that you are all for breeding certain colours and 'races' out of existence to bring about that superior aryan race because you think it is the superior race.

    Why do you think there needs to be a superior race and a default race? Is it based on colour, sex? You see, if you are going to look at successful breeding in regards to race, then in short white people are screwed as they are losing the race compared to others of different colours and 'races'.

    Oh good grief. So how would you have done things differently? Sterilised all those you considered of the inferior races and only allowed those with the 'wanted' traits (blonde, white of aryan caste) to breed?

    You see TT, the holocaust was bad because of what he was trying to achieve and the manner in which he attempted to achieve his goals. The fact you don't get that says a lot about you.

    Lets have a looksy shall we? For a start, you'd have to ensure that only a certain group of people were allowed to breed, and use their eggs and sperm to impregnate others, resulting in a disproportionate number of people with the same genes running around. And I am sure that even you would recognise the dangers of inter-breeding.

    As to preventing others from breeding, you'd have to use force to stop them from doing so. You'd either have to adopt Hitler's means and kill them or use violence and force to sterilise them. Hmmm.. I don't know about you but I find the whole notion to be quite disgusting. Because you would harm those of the 'default' race by either measures.

    Why the need to standardise? Why does there need to be a preferred race and one that is deemed inferior because of its colour, sex, sexuality, etc? From my perspective, I find it kind of ridiculous to even want to aspire to such an ideal. How boring would life be if we were all the same shade? While you may say you find women of all races attractive, how would you pick which one comes out on top in regards to breeding the right colour? What makes you think that billions will die unless we decide on one particular colour to breed and aspire too? Billions will die to other causes such as illness, old age, starvation, wars, etc. You can't get rid of death. Death is the natural course of life. Breeding the 'uber' race wont save them from death. Death, like taxes, is inevitable.

    Don't you get it? We are all one colour, just different and diverse shades. Diversity is what makes us all unique. All being the same would not make us unique. It would make us all exactly the same.
  22. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    To say they are ugly, is either racist, or ignorant. Which do you prefer being called?
  23. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    People already tried that. They failed. Game over. The world is racist, and the people who are in power are old. You might not see humans as cattle, but humans are treated as cattle and have been treated as cattle for thousands of years, even before race was invented. You have to accept reality for what it is, because it's not going to change just because you wish for it to change, you won't get far trying to change reality, especially in your position. If you have not been looking at recent history, the civil rights movement did not end racism. No amount of policy can cure a flawed species.

    They don't have to be in the majority, if the majority of the global population prefer blonde males to be in power, they will be in power. This has nothing to do with me, or you, because, at least in my case. I'm too young to matter. All the current situations you see now, are because of decisions our parents made, and the battles of the 60s, which I had nothing to do with. I'm more worried about the next series of battles, like genetic discrimination, and our species going extinct, the 60s is the past, and it's pointless to try to worry about the past. So all the race stuff, and vietnam, and all that stuff, it's from the past. The concept of race being black and white is from the past. The concept of the battle of the races is also from the past.

    My generation has a different set of problems, we have to worry about the entire species going extinct, and if it's determined that the best way to save the species from extinction is to have one race of blonde aryans, then we should do whats best for our species. It does not matter who wins the "race war" or whatever the hell the older generations are fighting over. I'm only concerned with the human race and it's survival into the distant future, and the current concept of race is threatening the survival of our species. Our species includes blondes, you do realize that don't you?

    I never said blonde is my definition of perfect species. I have no preference in appearance. I don't give a damn what any of you people look like. I do give a damn how people are feeling. I do realize that there is a lot of misery and hate in the world, and I don't think it will end just by making everyone the same race, don't get me wrong, I'm saying people should have every option to reduce the misery in the world. When you remove options, you INCREASE MISERY for people. That is morally wrong, do you understand this point of view?

    If you don't allow people to choose, you will increase suicides and people will abort themselves.

    I don't care about his race, your race, I don't care about his appearance, your appearance, none of it matters to me. This is why people should be able to select whatever appearance they want. I'm not attached to any of them. I think all appearances are equally beautiful and equally ugly, depending on who is underneath it.

    The world society decides which appearance is superior, not you, not me. I'm saying if the world society defines beauty, why should you not be able to, with enough money, select the most beautiful baby you can afford? You and I, we don't define beauty, THEY do. And THEY means the racist society, which is the majority.

    They don't have to be, I don't mean that sort of majority. I mean if blonde males hold the majority of the power, of course every parent is going to want their child to be blonde and male. This is not a good reason, but it's rational. It's the same thinking that a Chinese parent might have when deciding to have a boy over a girl. It makes perfect sense, don't try to pretend like it's irrational just because you aren't feeling it.

    Gay people can have children.

    Because thats what the racists of the world want. This is never going to end until they get what they want. So the option, do you want the world to end and the species to go extinct, or do you want a standard race? Pick. I admit, I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of a standard race either, because I like the variety of appearances, and I'd get bored if all women looked the same. But honestly, I don't care enough about how women look, to value appearance over the survival of the species. I'd rather we have a standard race and survive than have diversity and extinction.

    I'm not racist. Stop trying to call me a racist just because I have race neutral views. The views I have, would not harm you in any way, would not harm racists in any way, and would make all sides happy, as long as all sides would like to see a non-violent solution, and would like to ensure the survival of the species. I don't think about race in my day to day activities, other people do, because they do and refuse to stop, or just can't stop, eventually it's going to force people to selectively breed.

    How bad do you want to see minorities suffering before you come to the conclusion, that race should be selected in the lab? Look at Africa, the only reason Africa gets treated like that is because Africans look different. The different appearances are holding the species back, and only the species matters. We need to pick a race standard.

    You just don't get it. First I don't hate. Second, I don't see you are a race, I see you as a collection of genes. Third, you are too naive to make sense.

    You don't seem like a bad person, I respect where you are coming from, I understand how you feel, but you have to think with your brain for just this once. Your appearance does not matter, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.No one is going to fight to protect your appearance, because the majority of the world at this time prefers the blonde look, for whatever reason. Don't ask me why as if I'm some sorta psycho-analyist, I'm not, and don't ask me why the world is racist, I don't know. I'm not racist, I'm trans-humanist. The difference between a trans-humanist and a racist, a trans-humanist cares about survival of the species, and cares about the betterment of mankind, as a whole, through intelligent selection. This could mean for example, choosing greater intelligence in the lab just as easily as it could mean choosing different appearances.

    A racist on the other hand, and I've debated with some on this forum, would rather not have people be able to select their genes, at least if the racist is poor and cannot afford to select.You see, in the trans-humanist world, class becomes race. If you can afford to design your baby, you'll have an intelligent, perfectly beautiful baby, if you can't, you'll have to deal with whatever your genepool gives you.

    Race will exist either way, but in the trans-humanist world, people will have more control, their babies WILL be intelligent because we will eventually find the genes that control this. Babies can be whatever race parents want, if the parents start to believe that black is beautiful, parents can select dark skin, no ones going to stop them, however if parents continue to think as they do now, and things stay as they do right now, then parents should have the option to choose whatever race they want for their baby. If you want to, you could choose to have whatever you want for your babies appearance, whats wrong with this?

    I'm not pissed off. You assume I'm racist, but you've never read any of my posts or know any of my views. I think you are more racist than I am because you are too busy trying to be proud, that you don't see the bigger picture, which is that our species will proudly go extinct if you don't do something to fix the current situation. You can be proud all you want, it's not going to matter when theres no world left and no society. You have to think about the world your child will grow up in, really think about it. Do you want your child to inherit all this?

    Personally I don't place value on appearance, but the majority of the world does. Accept the fact that the majority of the world population are racist, and sexist.

    The majority of the world is shallow, it does not matter where you go. I'm not shallow, thats why I don't think appearance matters, to me appearance is like the suit you wear to work. We all have to wear the same suit and tie, because thats standard, eventually race may become the same way. It's better to define a standard than to watch the company go bankrupt over something stupid like dresscodes and other bullshit. If not a standard, at least let people choose what to wear to work.

    Consequentialism, does the species ultimately survive? If yes, then my point is morally correct even if it's distasteful, it's not like you have any better idea, do you? Of course you don't. If you did we'd have heard your better ideas.

    You assume I'm only capable of making arguements from my personal point of view. If I don't care, I literally don't care, and I can make the arguement from any point of view. If the world were run by Asians, then I'd have said all children should look Asian, if the world were run by Africans, I'd say all children should look African. But there is no demand for these appearances it seems, it seems that even today, people prefer blondes. In specific, tall blondes. I never said I prefer tall blondes, I said the majority.

    I never said I agreed with Hitler, I said that a lot of people agree with Hitlers vision. Many people disagree with the holocaust, not because of the vision, but the means, the methods, and the violence to bring forth that vision. I'm not talking about eugenics either, it's 2006, I'm talking about genetics. Eugenics don't really matter much at all, what matters is genetics.

    How the hell should I know? The species already decided though. The people who control the world decided, they are the decision makers, and they define beauty and ugly, not me, not you, not this forum. Racism is just aestheticism, it's an excuse to define beauty. It's not a real science. I don't believe eugenics are a real science either. I think genetics are real science, because this has been proven in lab experiements, unlike race, unlike eugenics.

    No one said you have to go extinct. You just don't get it. You are not your brown skin, you are your brain, your mind, and your entire body, your skin is the least important part of your body. If you want to define yourself by that then it's your problem.

    What I'm saying is, if you can choose in a lab what your baby will look like, the brown skin gene would go extinct, the important genes will pass on, in specific the genes that the species collectively decides it values.

    whatever, you are trying to be technical.

    Maybe it's not superior, maybe you are right about cancer, maybe thats why most people on earth don't have white skin, but it does not change the fact that society is designed to favor white skin.

    If you on;y care about the human race, then appearances don't matter. Aesthetics can be selected in the lab, as can sexuality, if you don't want a homosexual child you should be able to shut the gene off if we discover it's a gene, the same with obesity, the same with any of the diseases, if we can shut them off, why not? It would still be your child, the child would still be you, the only difference is the child would not have any diseases and would be healthier.

    You are misinterpreting me. I'm not judging the world. The world has judged itself. The world is organized like this for a reason, because people who are older than us already made decisions which the rest of us live with. So bad decisions of the past, lead to difficult decisions in the future. Options are limited, you have to save the species from itself, how do you do it? do you continue to go on doing what you've been doing and watch us go extinct?

    If I were wrong, why are there more racists in society than non-racists? Explain that.

    Because some people hate your children just because they exist, and in specific it's because they hate the appearance, the same way some people hate spiders or snakes because of how they look.

    This has nothing to do with me or you. This has to do with what the Nazi's think. Once again, you can go on trying to pretend like Nazi's do not exist, or like their opinons do not matter, but they do exist, and their opinions do matter. It would make a lot of racists happy if there were a standard race. It has nothing to do with us, it's about them. In order to have any sorta solution, you have to take into account the wishes of all sides. If millions, or billions of people, decide that they want a standard appearance, there is not much you can do to stop it. Just like if millions in America want to make certain states "Whites only" there is nothing you can do about it. Do you realize this?

    So what is your solution? how do you save humanity from itself? How do you satisify all sides?
    But that's just me.

    What if the majority of the world disagrees with you? What if the majority of the world, prefers the Aryan caste?

    You are right, I don't know what every individual is thinking, but I know how people are behaving, and it seems that the majority of the world accepts the ideology.

    I don't care about races. My point of view is really simple. If humanity survives as blonde babies, so be it, at least theres babies. Would you rather we go extinct because you want to hold on to your appearance?

    Because until our leaders decide to change, it's just the way it is.

    I never said I disagreed with you. I'm just saying, our leaders make the decisions on which skin is most valueable. I don't, and you don't, and thats all.

    If we had a black President, a black vice President, and if the whole EU were switched and black people were presidents all over the EU, and in Africa there where white people suffering, my opinion would be that humans have choose the black appearance. They are all human to me, no matter the position, the place, the appearance, suffering is suffering, and I'd feel it if it were white people suffering in Africa, or black people suffering in Africa, or asians, or any other kinda people. Do you get my point? Whichever group of people who is in control at the time defines the standard appearance, not me, not you. So it doesnt really matter to me who looks like what, all that matters is that the species does not go extinct. I don't really care what people end up looking like to be honest.

    Because thats what the world society thinks. Ask the decision makers of the world why they make the decisions they make. Ask the census why it forces you to choose a race or even asks. Ask people why they still promote the concept of race, and still teach it in class, and in the same class teach how blacks were slaves since forever and ignore the rest of history, and in the same school teach how whites dominated and conquered the earth. Why don't you ask these questions, and get some answers, and when you get the answers, then you can decide what you want to do about it, because right now you arent doing anything.

    Thats unncessary. I never said it's a good idea to sterilize people. I told you once again, theres no such thing as race, only genes. This means that sterilizing people is inefficient, wasteful, and likely to do more harm than good, really to me theres no difference genetically between the appearances, I don't think sterilizing people of different appearances would accomplish anything. I do think letting people selectively breed would accomplish something, because unlike removing genes from the gene pool, this allows people to precisely add their best genes to the gene pool, thats the difference.

    Sterilizing I'd say slows evolution down, and it's a bit violent.

    Sterilizing is morally wrong because it's unneccessary and it's violent. Abortion however, which accomplishes the same thing without sterilizing, how is that wrong? People who don't want children don't have to have them. I'm saying add choices, not take them away, can you see the difference? I'm not even for abortion, because I'd rather people be able to select individual genes, and I'm definately not for sterilization, thats going backwards, and it's even more morally wrong than abortion.

    I never said that. I never said limit gene diversity. I said let people CHOOSE genes, and CHOOSE appearances. This does not limit gene diversity. What exact is your skin gene so useful for? What exactly is your eye color gene useful for? What is downsymdrome useful for? A lot of these genes, which we inherit, have no use in todays society. They might have been useful in the past, but now they have little to no use beyond aesthetics.

    We are not in the 1800s, or the 1920s, or the 1900s, we are in 2000. You don't have to prevent others from breeding if people can select genes. But if people can't select genes then maybe you do. Do you see the point ?

    You still don't get it. I don't know if you are pretending to be stupid or trying to be stupid on purpose. If you can choose your genes in a lab, then any two people can breed of any two appearances, and activate or deactivate the genes they want or don't want. There will be no need to prevent anyone from breeding, or to use violence, because science is advanced enough at this point to activate and deactivate genes without violence. This is not the dark ages where if someone got the black plague you had to kill them and burn the body, this is 2006, where we can cure the black plague in a lab.

    And no, I'm not trying to be racist by using the term "black plague", but this is how racists tend to see it. So it's not going to matter how non-racists see the world, because no one listens to non-racists. Did people listen to Martin Luther King? Few cared what he had to say, in fact he got shot and killed.

    Go to a Nazi website, and ask them.

    Yeah so? You should ask your superiors why they want the world like this.

    I dont. I let the world pick and I adapt to the global environment. It won't matter what she looks like because science allows you to decide what the baby looks like by activating or de-activating genes. You keep thinking in the old fashioned way, where how your baby looked was like rolling a dice, but this has changed. Now you have complete control no matter what you and your partner look like, which means anyone can have a blonde baby now, because it's just a matter of activating or deactivating a few genes. I guess you don't see the point.

    I think dying over appearance is stupid. There are better things to die for. I think people want to defend their appearance out of pride. I don't think it's rational. It's rational to care about the species, in all it's appearances, and so I'd prefer if we preserve gene diversity, thats why I'm against sterilization, but I'm not against gene selection because sterilization decreases gene diversity while gene selection actually increases it.

    I'm for diversity of genes, not diversity of appearance. That's the difference. I'm for gene diversity. I'm against sterilization because it limits gene diversity, which ultimately harms the species and slows evolution down. So I don't care if everyone looked like exactly the same man and woman, as long as they all had diverse genes.

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