No Fly Zone Over Palestine?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Apr 21, 2011.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Aside from the obvious? Morbidly entertaining, I suppose.

    Aside from the fact that it won't happen? I honestly don't know, S.A.M.

    Actually, my first response was to wonder if the Palestinians think they can stop an incoming, American made missile launched from Israel.

    Then I had a thought that a no-fly zone would also mean hitting those missile sites.

    At which point it struck me that the United States could, theoretically, end up at war with multiple nations because we are actively defending our ally Israel.

    Which, of course, suggests quite strongly that a NFZ over Palestine ain't gonna happen.

    Can you imagine the history books on that one? What would be the technical starting point of World War III? What would be the "Archduke Ferdinand" of the new war? Would it be the U.S.'s refusal to let the world stop Israel's killing of Palestinian civilians? Or would it be that the situation came about as a result of our wars in other countries? Or would it be that those wars came about because of 9/11?

    Watching the historians fight over that would provide entertainment near to bloodsport for about fifty years after the war.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think they are permitted to defend themselves

    On that topic, the US Coalition to end the Israeli occupation has published an interesting page - How many weapons to Israel?

    Some interesting stats

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/new-da...-israel-impact-on-palestinians-oped-20042011/
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    An obvious question, I think ....

    Legally? Colloquially? Circumstantially? I mean, come on ... we both know that's going to be a controversial statement, and even though it works for me automatically in the colloquial context, few are going to take it that way. Circumstantially? Yeah, I can see that. Legally? In truth, I have no idea what the paper trail says.

    In re: weapons to Israel, I would actually start with a slightly obscure point about writing. People use too many exclamation points. I mention that because I think focusing on a "shocking" number, as such, can undermine the more important considerations. In the end, I don't think the fact that the U.S. has armed Israel to the teeth is going to change many minds.

    I mean, sure, it's a lot of weapons. I'm more worried about what they do with them. They can kill a thousand people with a thousand bullets, or maybe one GBU-43/B if we let the Israelis have those. The number of weapons doesn't matter to me. It's a matter of how they're used, and why.
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Well, its simple enough. Lets see, the western nations "recognised" a partition of Palestine as a dumping ground for unwanted Jews. They support Israeli actions if not overtly, at least covertly by providing the bulldozers to demolish the Palestinian homes and orchards, legal cover in the Security Council, Hague and ICJ, economic opportunities and of course, an unremitting supply of arms, chemical, biological and nuclear to sustain the occupation

    What are the resources supplied to the Palestinians to maintain their sovereignty and for self defense against this western colonial outpost?

    Thats not really true. Otherwise the US would not be supplying billions in technology, funding and weapons to defend against the gazillion rockets which have killed what? 20 people? in the last decade.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Wealth redistribution

    Well, okay ... but ... come on, you're talking about Americans. We start wars in order to pump money to defense contractors. Who here thinks we're above padding executive pockets with politics and paranoia?

    It's the American way of redistributing wealth.
     
  11. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I'm thinking of the 5 or so Arab armies that fought Israel and lost.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm and I'm thinking, some Jewish guy from Russia or Africa or the US decides that its time to fulfil his obligation to G-D, so he moves to Palestine gets a bulldozer and demolishes a Palestinian home. Then he uproots the thousand year old olive trees and puts up a wall and calls it a settlement and moves in with his family. Then he shoots at any Palestinians who try to come home.

    What are the legal or extra-legal resources available to this Palestinian? What can this Palestinian do? What is he permitted to do?
     
  13. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly right, and this mentality is excepted and even expected by the general public now! It is the new humanitarianism don't ya know!
     
  14. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you pose questions that you already know the answers to?
     
  15. YoYoPapaya Trump/Norris - 2012 Registered Senior Member

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    I suspect you already know the answer to that sir.
     
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    are all Israeli supporters so ignorant of history their were actually 7 seperate arab armies that fought, at least in name, against Israeli/jewish/zionist aggression and sadly were defeated thanksa to the aram deals ISrael has and the arms embargo against those Israel attacked.
     
  17. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    The Israelis should be banned from flying warplanes period. They've never even made a pretence of avoiding collateral damage, ie killing innocent people. If I had a thousand stinger missiles handy, I'd give them to Hamas. I don't support Hamas, but my enemies enemy and all that.. But then I'm just biased, I happen to believe in freedom and justice. Something not seen in palestine since 1949.
    The sooner the US stopped funding these criminals, the better for everybody (except the arms dealers and their patsies in the senate.)
    I'm gonna censor myself here before I say something bannable.
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  18. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Hence the "or so". And I wouldn't be talking about ignorance when you spell like a 4 year old.
     
  19. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There are some lovely condos in Boca. I could send him a brochure. The Arab world spans most of the continent. There is no shortage of empty desert. I just love how the Muslims enjoy such solidarity with each other, it's an example for the world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  20. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    What is he permitted to do? Be poor and suffer.

    What are his extra-legal resources? Stinger missiles that may do the Palestinian cause more long-term harm than good.

    Edited to add:
    Skaught found this excellent photoessay and linked it in his thread... http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/at-what-point-does-it-become-too-close-for-comfort/

    And I would actually like to try to get some people together to rent a billboard and put up one a month...it takes about 1K a month to rent a billboard here...
    Provided my health permits me to do so (THAT is really BIG problem ATM, I'm exhausted again...)...
    I will attempt to get in touch with few people-ones who have more money and time (I.e. local, middle-class, retired peace activists...) and see what a few emails and a little smidge of cash can accomplish.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  21. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    More nice new settler homes in more disputed and troubled territory. All more fuel on the fire.. http://is.gd/qSc7R7

    Gee, how clever Israel, now when these illegal homes are shot at, you can send in the drones, F-16's, bulldozers and snatch squads. A real sensible effort for peace, not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  22. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Money, mostly, but also various types of training and advice:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
     
  23. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    That much is true.
     

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