Negotiating with a Suicidal person.

awww you poor thing
did the Gorgs make you widle your pants ?
are you scared by shiney objects ?
maybe more likely your just trying to discredit my post because you have intellectual penis envy and fail to comprehend enough to actualy comment on it.

i would like to think it was a mark of a well stated comment but when its only you making little squeely noises then its no real cheer leading is it.

whats next ?
phone a freind ?

 

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actually I think...what would work is to do some embarassing infront of the suicider...like masturbate right there infront of him.

So he is like...and when I die...this will be remembered?! no way

 

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Bells:

I guess suicide is one of those tricky issues where some people just can't confront it and resort to comedy and sarcasm to over come their inability to grapple with the issue.

Bells thanks for taking the issue seriously.

The point of my post was really about how this lad on the edge has finally got to a point in his life where he actually can make a decision purely for himself and no one else. Not many people can say that they can do that in normal life but here we have a guy doing just that. To me this reeks of opportunity to take control of your own life or death and thus if he steps away and makes a decision to go on he will do so on his terms and not someone elses. Thus empowered. [ He always has this choice you see just like you do and every one else does ]

All we as a society need to work on is how to achieve this empowerment with out such dramatics....

 

Sad story Bells and one I can empathises with as similar has happened to me on two occassions. [ a young boy of 14 and a brother ]

What you say is correct sometimes it is way too late to start giving people the empowerment they need to survive difficult times. Often children grow up and never have had the issue of self empowerment encouraged or taught to them. In fact most grow up fighting their parents and society for the right to determine their own futures and even though parents and society wish this also they negate it by their behaviour and show serious contradictions.

Sadly it is often the strength of love and type of love that can often push a young person into dispair. The love being so smothering and conditional that the young person hasn't a hope with out pulling every stunt he/she can to try and get the parents/ society to change the way they love them. I see this as often being the cause for the rebeliousnesss of youth and of course this is essential in building strong esteems etc.....however some are overwhelmed and cannot find their own place or space becasue the parents or society seem to try and control all of it for them.

At the moment I am writing a small book on the subject of Consent and voluntary living, which hopefully goes some way to address this issue.

I appreciate your comments.....

Do you think that if society changed it's attitude to the issue of ultimate choice [ as I call suicide or euthanasia ] whilst not wishing to encourage death but yet encourage empowerment by recognising that every one has this choice at all times any way whether happy or sad, challenged or indifferent would lead to less suicide or more?

 

To give an idea of how potent this issue is:

Ask any parent or lover or wife or husband etc....how do they feel about this ultimate choice for the one they love? [ remembering that the choice is already existant but not used ]

Immediately you will get an grief response. You will get anger at the mere suggestion. You will get serious denial and frustration.

It shows just how much pressure this choice generates in people. Especially the issue of denial of that choices existance.

It is terribly confronting and shows how conditional our love and investment in the other person is. "I shall invest in you as long as you don't consider saying NO to that investment" of course children or teenagers have very little ability to say NO and this is at the very heart of the issue, that being the ability to say NO. Until finally for some they end up on the "ledge" wanting just that ability.

 

"Fuck 'em Jonda, don't give 'em the satisfaction"

 

That's not much of test for anything. You're asking the wrong people the wrong question. What you need to ask them is, "How do you feel about some jerk 2,000 miles away, who you don't even know, commiting suicide?"

Most likely, they'll say something like, "Gee, they shouldn't do that." ...then they'll go back to laughing and joking and having fun with their friends ...the jerk 2,000 miles away is totally forgotten. People lie to make others think that they really care ....when they don't give one single rat's ass.

Baron Max

 

I understand your concerns. I might add the denial I was speakig of certainly runs deep. The question the last paragragh of your post [ italic ] raises in my mind is :

Do you think that a depressed person is not already aware of this ultimate choice?

I tend to feel that if suicide was open for discussion from early years as openly as possible then with the right approach people would be more capable of dealing with lives challenges but as it stands the issue of suicide is kept silent and is thought about in the lonely places of troubled hearts.

Recently a young woman of 21 chose death [ in our suburb ] due to the fact that she had fallen in love with and Islamic man and as her family were strict orthodox christian her love was not allowed. She had been threatened with death by her father if she had a relationship outside their culture/religion. So she did what she had to do and strung herself up in her bedroom.

I ask if she had been properly empowered would she have been able to find another solution? I guess we will never know.

Because dis-empowerment is such an entrenched human condition, where people are not allowed to be free of over regulation by governments and authoritarian parents the chances of making an improvement are slim in the short term. Possibly in the longer term as generations go by there may be improvement.

An example of legal dis-empowerment:

Recently law have been passed that forbid smoking in any areas where food is to be consumed.
Now on the surface this seems reasonable I guess however what it does is take away the ability for people to learn when it is appropriate or not to smoke, to learn empathy, to learn how to respect someone elses needs etc etc. and instead people only don't smoke because the law says so. Thus fully dis-empowered by government regulation.

So this problem is not in any way superficial as it runs so deep into our culture and lifestyle, conditional living is so much a normal part of life it is only when a guy stands on a ledge ready to jump that we start to question it.

 

It has been about 7 years since posting this thread and wondered if any one had anything further to add?