National ID cards, good or bad?

I don’t have a problem with national ID cards. Most of the people that posted messages in this thread seem to be concerned about protecting their privacy. I am sorry to disappoint you but you have no privacy. It’s just an illusion. Everyone that has ever used this website is probably on the grid. That would be anyone that has ever used a credit card, shopped or banked online, applied for a driver’s license, Ect. There are things that people can do to reduce the risk of being victims of identity theft, but your information is out there and there is nothing that you can do about it.

 

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That's what I have been trying to tell them in the last few days. At this point and specially in the USA national ID is a non-issue as privacy goes...

 

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Again, even if privacy were an issue, it's the government. It's a trustable entity and I think more government presence is only a good thing as long as it's not abused.

 

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Well, be sure to fill out you will completely. that particualr cookbook is chock full of recipe errors designed to get you killed, but in such a way that only you and your conspirators are harmed. I won't tell you which recipes, becuase that defeats the purpose

 

Government is only how many millions of corrupt or corruptable people?​

Show me just 1 instance of any major human government that has not abused its power. What? Not even 1 can be found?

Doesn't it occur to people, that if people are compelled to sign onto this "national ID" way of thinking, doesn't that make people vunerable to such ID? What if some "cop" steals your ID? What if they can't find charges to incarcerate somebody that will stick, so they just happen to "lose" or tamper with your ID? Okay, so you aren't technically in jail, but you can't work a job, can't apply for credit, can't buy anything that doesn't involve a simple cash exchange, can't get cash out of your bank account, can't fill out papers requiring proof of ID?

And of course, cost is a big issue, because in the end, it's always the taxpayers that get stuck with the bill, one way or another. And what is we don't trust the system, and so in advance, have to make up excuses to get ourselves duplicate copies of our ID, in case some corrupt cop or cops, try to set up some protection racket or something? "Want your ID back? How much cash money (bribe) will you give me to give it back to you?"

What movie was it? "Enough." This lady flees from an abusive husband, and practically immediately, none of her credit cards work, and her bank accounts are frozen. Angry husband reported all her credit cards stolen. Isn't that really the "tip of the iceberg" of potential abuses, if we are lulled to sleep by those who don't really care much about freedom, and told to sign onto some "security" scheme, but they don't want to answer any sensible or embarassing questions about it?

Even retina scans aren't foolproof for ID. How many video games even, show how retina scans are defeated? In one of the "Splinter Cell" video games, well of course my spy character hasn't been cleared for retina access to certain secure areas, so the strategy is to "convince" somebody with access, to let me through the secured door. "Convincing" means sneaking up on the guy, probably conveniently a "terrorist" or member of some "unfriendly" government or something, grab him suddenly, holding him with arm locked around his neck and a gun to his head, so that he's compelled to come where I drag him, such as to the retina scanner securing the door. For some strange reason, if I knock the guy out before dragging him to the retina scanner, the scanner won't accept the scan. Maybe it sees not enough blood flow in the retina? Half-Life video game, also had retinal scanners, which but of course, in their haste or something, before the "Unforseen Consequences" occured, they failed to get my character assigned to an approved retina scan account. A little hard to get through certain doorways, when the people who were supposed to let me through, have been removed by the disaster. Fortunately, I think at least 1 door shorted out, went beserk, randomly opening and closing.

 

Not having a will, and having a will, both lead to stupid probate court delays and expenses!​

A few technical issues. Wills are designed to make lawyers lots of money whenever somebody dies. All sorts of unnecessary and time-consuming probate issues that eat up a substancial portion of the inheritance. Due to the corrupt system, and that probate really was only to insure that the dead's person's bills get paid, which usually the survivors take care of anyway, now the far better preparation is not a will, which is almost like not having a will, but to set up a proper Living Trust. There's a paperback book "The Living Trust" by Henry W. Abts III. I can't go into much detail, as I really wouldn't know how or have time to explain it all. The basic concept is, that when an individual holds wealth, when the individual dies, who then holds that wealth? So a complicated transfer is then initiated. But under a Living Trust, the person is their own trustee. When that person dies, their Trust does not die, and successor trustees are already named, so it's a much smoother transition.

Only you and your conspiractors are harmed? Oh, please do elaborate. Are these errors of carelessness, or of deliberate conspiratorial design? So all such people who might find some reason to cook up such recipes, never ever live in apartments, with innocent neighbors all around? Also an added danger of meth labs? Presumably not all are out in the middle of the desert somewhere? Isn't the entire history of the development of explosives, a particularly dangerous one? Only recently have they figured out how to make effective explosives, very stable and safe under normal handling. And BTW, I don't think I would prefer a job working in a fireworks factory.

I've heard that the old chemistry sets were much better than the ones for sale now. For fear of lawsuits, much of the "dangerous" stuff has been removed, leaving us with chemistry sets, that have very little chemistry left in them? Presumably if you are intended to blow yourself up, you'll have to try a little harder now, and know what you are doing? Often mixing chemicals can be dangerous, perhaps enough to at least wear some safety goggles. If certain chemicals are too reactive, they can splash onto you, if you don't mix them just right? Or release poisonous fumes.

I wouldn't imagine that a cookbook with that particular name, to be completely safe, but is it even less safe than we would have been led to believe?

 

If you are going to quote, don't be dishonest and edit out the parts you don't like. I said I could go to a Police station later, at my convenience, and make a statement, and that an ID card was not necessary.

Your little scenario did not prove the utility or necessity of an ID card. You failed, and then resorted to being dishonest with your quote of my post.

If you have to resort to that, I know you have no valid points to make.

 

It's bullshit because the Police would have to witness the event to act quickly enough to make some dragnet worthwhile, which means they should give chase, and also, the Police don't have the resources to do what you claim, and seal off an area quickly enough, and as people come and go, there's no reason to assume that someone in the area 20 mins later had a damned thing to do with the crime, and it's fair to assume the perp would have fled, so yes, your little scenario fall flat.

They already know the identities from the ship's manifest. If a stowaway did it, are they going to come forward to the Police?

Now, extrapolate that little scenario to an entire country, are people living off the radar going to come forward and get ID cards? No, whatever reasons they have for avoiding authority will remain, until it's impossible to do otherwise. ID cards will not make it impossible.

 

ID's are good.

 

ID's are bad

 

Why do you think that the free media is so important? it is to keep the government in check.

Besides, what about corruption? People in governments would, just like most other people, abuse their power for their own personal gain, if they are not held in check.

Governments are not to be trusted.

 

Unsubstantiated statements don't make your point. Refute the problems we have with a National ID card system, or shut up.

 

Governments are most definitely to be trusted. How can a popoulace operate if it does not trust it's government? No, we should have trust in our government, and the government should use our trust and give us good reason to trust them

I already have

 

My history teacher is Native American, he has an ID card that says he is recognized to belong to one or another Indian tribe by the US government, and when he buys stuff, if he shows the card, he does not have to pay state sales tax. He said he saved a ton on his car. I guess that kind of a national ID card, because it proves he is a member of an Indian "nation," but he is also just an American citizen, so...

 

Answers in red

 

Well some items in the cookbook are extremely safe if made correctly. However the recipe book is not the correct way. Any student of chemistry can point to flaws in several of the recipes. The only ones that are not flawed are the ones you can verify through other sources.

I will say the few I read if done as followed would kill the people working in the kitchen or garage they were working in. Mostly becuase such people would likely not call 911 when they started feeling ill. Even the ones who did would likely be too far along. In larger areas, the fumes would make people sick, but likely not kill anyone unless they were already had decrepit health.

And the book is most likely a plant, to tell the truth. Or some sick guys way of getting rid of would be terrorists.

 

here is something to bitch about:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10004646-38.html

"A pair of DHS policies from last month say that customs agents can routinely--as a matter of course--seize, make copies of, and "analyze the information transported by any individual attempting to enter, re-enter, depart, pass through, or reside in the United States."

One comment from a Digg user:

1. Government can tap your phone without a warrant
2. Government can detain you indefinitely if the president deems you a "threat"
3. Government can track every single credit card transaction you make, as of the passing of the housing bailout bill
4. Government can search your laptop/pda/ipod/iphone/other device without probable cause
5. Government can read your emails and monitor your online activity.

Interesting but almost exactly the same list I wrote a couple of post earlier and String was challenging it, although still no challenge in the Debate forum...

 

Hey recent true story:

One of my dogwalker friend just got pulled over by the police. Now she is about 40, white with 2 dogs in the car, daylight. No rules were broken, the officer said her car looked "suspicious". Suspicious my ass. Usually about 4-10 cars park where we walk the dogs, during the day there is no other activity there.

The point of the story is, if the police want to bother you, they can, ID or no ID....

 

Yeah, and under an ID card system they'd have asked for her ID, and if she didn't have it on her (like she didn't want to lose it over several miles of terrain) they'd probably have busted her and she'd have got a fine.

ID cards suck.

 

She could have refused to show ID easily unless the police can state some kind of real reason why she was stopped...

ID cards rule! I am a big collector of IDs...

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P.S.: Since she was driving a car she HAD TO carry a driving licence, the horror, the horror!!!!