My path to atheism: Yours? Rebuttals?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Apr 1, 2017.

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  1. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    No, I lack your belief.
    I don't make your claim, but I lack your belief.
    Your belief is in God.
    Hence I lack belief in God.
    Where in this is the implication that God exists?
    Your belief exists, that much is patently true, accepted, undisputed.
    But where in my lack of belief in God is there any implication that God exists?
    Answer: there isn't any.
    And?
    Yes, I lack your belief in God.
    Your belief is in God.
    I lack your belief.
    I thus lack belief in God.

    It's really not difficult, Jan.
    And you wonder why people think you're nothing but a troll.

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    I am atheist because I lack belief in God.
    It's no more difficult than that.
    You can try to twist it to fit your previous assertions through the trollish semantic manure you're spreading, but you can't avoid the issue: atheists are such because they lack belief in God, and the only thing this implies exists is the belief in God.
    It does not, irrespective of your fallacious reasoning, imply that God exists.

    Now please, do everyone a favour and just quit while you're behind... before you're disqualified.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    And Jan is sure not doing a favour for theists. We have always known the fallacious logic that goes into people "knowing" about unknowable matters.

    Jan is (and has been since the beginning) demonstrating for all to see that there is a strong association between the "belief equals knowledge" crowd and a distinct paucity of critical thinking, logic and good-faith communication. He is providing extant (if specious) evidence for our observations.
     
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  5. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Based on the fact that you lot have produced no evidence for them. I won't ask you to embarrass yourself again by repeating a request for evidence.
     
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Jan, do you like being a Poe?
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It's not a mantra. It's a fact. God does not exist as far as you're aware.

    I very willing and able to engage in this discussion.

    It's not a mantra. It's a fact.
    Does God exist as far as you're aware? No.
    It's fundamental.

    This isn't what you assert. It is about the fact that God does not exist as far as you're aware, regardless of what you assert.
    Anything you do assert about God, or theism. Is from the point of view that God does not exist as far as you're aware.
    There's nothing cultish about that.

    And my argument is, anything you say about God, or theists, is from the point of view that God does not exist. So when you remark that God is feeling in my heart, you know nothing about God. But you wish to project that on to me, or any theist who believes in God.

    Just reinforcing the fact that you currently don't know anything about God, because as far as you're aware, there is no God.
    That is why you are an atheist.

    jan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    You said, there is no God.
    Then you say, you didn't say that.
    You don't know whether you're coming or going. Do you?

    jan.
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I've no idea what you're talking about.
    But I guess it's some kind of insult.
    I take that as a sign of weakness. You have no argument, so you try and insult me.

    Lame!

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    jan.
     
  11. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Prove any god or gods exist. You can't do this, so you're just babbling inanely.
     
  12. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Describing a character type you choose to be isn't insulting.
     
  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I'm very clear in what I say.
    And what's more, I know that you know I'm very clear in what I say.
    You're an atheist. You're not stupid by any stretch of the imagination.

    I challenge you to show where I have actually been dishonest, as opposed to empty accusations of dishonesty.
    That's why I repeat my points, and keep them simple.

    Yes. God is only the subject matter, because there is no God as far as you're aware.
    If' I'm wrong. Then God does exist as far as you're aware.

    jan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  14. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't matter whether I can prove God exists, plus, it's not the point.
    As much as God doesn't exist for you, God Is, for me.
    What you're attempting to maintain, is that your position is correct, whereas mine is incorrect.
    But you have no way knowing that. You can only see things from your point of view.

    jan.
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    You still haven't told me what your characterization means.

    jan.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Again we see the repetition of a statement made dozens and dozens of times. There is no new information in this discussion. No elaboration, no clarification. No argument.

    But it can still serve a useful purpose as a peri-mortem examination into the mind of someone who believes that repeating something dozens and dozens of times makes it somehow less fallacious. An extant example of the Proof by Assertion fallacy.

    Fallacy: Proof by assertion – a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction;



    And notice that there is no attempt to assert his own case anymore, nor even the counterargument presented; he is simply attempting to weaken the opposing argument by way of an ad Hom (he attacks the people (atheists) making the argument, rather than the argument itself.)

    His continued assertion that we are speaking from an atheist perspective - thus the fallacious implication that the arguer's perspective somehow weakens the argument itself - is textbook ad Hom. (It's less effort to dismiss a person than a good argument.)

    Fallacy type: Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.

    Fallacy subtype: Traitorous critic fallacy – a subtype of ad hominem where a critic's perceived affiliation is seen as the underlying reason for the criticism
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  17. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    You can request evidence from thesist but you can not make them produce it

    Michael Oct 2017

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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Like this?
    This comes after you have repeatedly denied implying that your God exists, or that the existence of your God is legitimate question. It is a muddle, and that is increasingly visible as a tactic of yours - you are posting stuff that takes paragraphs to unravel, and to no purpose.

    You contradict yourself in sequence, and you argue in circles, and you repeat falsehoods, and you post deflecting questions and assertions in bad faith, and you attack the person, and you ignore what you cannot deal with in those ways. That's all clear, yes.
    I have several times, over the time here, quoted you and labeled the quote an example of your dishonesty. So have other people. So that's been done, see? We're long past that.
     
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, it is the point. You being unable to do so proves that you can't. Nobody has ever been able to do so, you're nothing special.
     
  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Faster than a speeding concept
    More powerful than a notion
    Able to leap over logic in a single bound
    Look. Inside the brain. It’s a thought
    It’s a deduction
    It’s Superthesist
    Yes, it’s Superthesist, strange visitor from another world who came to Sciforum with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men
    Superthesist, who can change the course of mighty threads bend your will with his bare retoric
    And who, disguised as Repeat A Mantra mild-mannered thesist for a great 2,000 year old book fights a never ending battle for belief, faith and the Conviction way

    Sorry Superman

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  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    If, as you claim, you're posting in good faith, then why haven't you responded to any of these substantive posts?

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/my-path-to-atheism-yours-rebuttals.159161/page-16#post-3478555
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/my-path-to-atheism-yours-rebuttals.159161/page-16#post-3478564
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/my-path-to-atheism-yours-rebuttals.159161/page-16#post-3478579

    ... especially the first one, in which I set out what I believe your position is, so that you can clarify if necessary.

    Is it because it takes less effort to repeat one-line mantras than to respond to a detailed analysis and response to what you have written? Is it because you don't want to think about whether you own position is sustainable?
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    If taken as "a lack of belief in God", yes.
    If taken as "a lack in a belief of positive assertions about God". Then God does not exist as far as the atheist is aware.

    It's a matter of perspective.

    I've explained what Iean on several occasions.

    Like I said it's already been explained. You analysis of it, is much like one of you famous summation. Packed full with misinformation.

    Is Big foot categorised as an object?

    An atheist is a person who does not believe in God, because God does does not exist as far as they are aware.
    Now you see the reason for my repetitiveness. To counter your obfuscation.

    Obviously not.

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    Jan.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sometimes. In several different ways, depending on who's doing it.

    But that's irrelevant - unless you are trying to blow smoke over your inability to make sense of your various existence claims with respect to your particular God. You were trying to deflect into some irrelevance about "objects" earlier - trying a rerun?
    That's not why.
     
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